00001

1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

2 U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE

4 PUBLIC HEARING

5 regarding

8 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT/ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT

FOR THE HEADWATERS FOREST ACQUISITION AND PACIFIC LUMBER

9 COMPANY HABITAT CONSERVATION PLAN

AND SUSTAINED YIELD PLAN

12 REDWOOD ACRES FAIRGROUNDS, FRANCESHI HALL

3750 HARRIS STREET, EUREKA

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1998

9:00 A.M. AND 1:00 P.M. AND 6:00 P.M.

00002

1 A P P E A R A N C E S

3 PRESIDING: RICHARD DE CLERCK, Solicitor

Department of the Interior

4 500 N.E. Multnomah St., Suite 607

Portland, Oregon 97232

APPEARING: BRUCE HALSTEAD

7 PHIL DETRICH, HCP team leader

JOHN INGRAM

8 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

2233 Watt Avenue, Suite 120

9 Sacramento, California 95825-0509

10 DEAN LUDTKE

California Department of Forestry

11 Sacramento, California

12 WILLIAM HOGARTH

JOSEPH BLUM

13 National Marine Fisheries Service

Protected Resources Division

14 777 Sonoma Avenue, Room 325

Santa Rosa, California 95404

00003

1 I N D E X

3 SPEAKER PAGE

4 (Morning session)

6 STEPHEN DALE 18

7 ALAN FRANKLIN 20

8 ROBIN ARKLEY 21

9 RODNEY SANDERSON 22

10 DALE WELCH 25

11 COLUM COYNE 27

12 JOHN SNEED 30

13 BRUCE CHAPMAN 33

14 DAN BROYLES 35

15 CHARLES FUENTES 36

16 BRUCE BECK 39

17 ROGER SANDERSON 41

18 JOHN LYNOTT 43

19 DENNIS SCHLOTZHAUER 45

20 NICK BOLT 47

21 JOHN KENNON 48

22 RHETT IMPERIALE 51

23 MARK MUELLER 53

24 RICHARD ROBBINS 54

25 STAN JOHNSON 57

00004

1 JEAN PAULSON 60

2 JIM MESKILL 61

3 DANIEL BARTLETT 63

4 BOB THOMAS 65

5 CARL WICKMAN 67

6 DONALD KEGLEY 68

7 JOHN FRINK 70

8 JAY PARRISH 72

9 SARA BUCCOLA 72

10 DOC GALLUP 74

11 TIM MARKS 75

12 DICK LINDSAY 76

13 MICHAEL DUNKELBERGER 78

14 ROBERT McCUTCHEN 78

15 DAN IHARA 81

16 PAULETTE KALLO 82

17 TIM PETRUSHA 84

18 CHARLES MOYER 85

19 PAUL CIENFUEGOS 86

20 JOHN PREVOST 88

21 FRANCES FERGUSON 90

22 MARK COBB 91

23 BRADLEY BURNS 93

00005

1 (Afternoon session)

3 BEA STANLEY 104

4 JAN KRAEPELIEN 106

5 BONNIE BLACKBERRY 110

6 GREG WELLISH 111

7 ROBIE TENORIO 114

8 SHAWNEE ALEXANDRI 115

9 JONATHAN PEARL 118

10 DAVID WALSH 121

11 DALE NEIMAN 124

12 CAROLYN SWANSON 126

13 ROBERT DIPERNA 128

14 TRACY KATELMAN 129

15 CRAIG BELL 132

16 JEFF KIDD 135

17 PATRICK HIGGINS 137

18 KEVIN BUNDY 140

19 JEAN CADWELL 143

20 SUNSHINE MANSFIELD 144

21 AGNES PATAK 146

22 SUZANNE BEERS 149

23 ALI FREEDLUND 150

24 ANGELA BONNER 153

25 BERT SILVA 155

00006

1 BERK SNOW 158

2 STEPHANIE GAWBOY 161

3 GARY WILHELM 164

4 ROBERT CLAY 165

5 RICHARD GIENGER 169

6 MICHAEL STOWELL 171

7 RANIL SENANAYAKE 173

8 PERRY PHILLIPS 176

9 JOHN SEVERN 179

10 BERNIE BUSH 182

11 CECILIA LANMAN 185

12 MARK HILOVSKY 189

13 MICHAEL EVENSON 190

14 CLINT BUSH 193

15 RON HASELIP 195

16 FRANK WILSON 197

17 DENNIS WOOD 200

18 REX BOHN 202

19 GARY OGDEN 203

20 JEFF RINGWALD 206

21 JOHN COOK 208

22 MIKE BONNIKSON 209

23 CARL ROME 210

24 SUSAN MALONEY 211

25 CHRIS SKYHAWK 214

00007

2 (Evening session)

4 DAN KEPON 225

5 JIM HOLDNER 227

6 BILL DAVIS 229

7 JOSH STRANGE 230

8 JENE McCOVEY 233

9 PAUL BILLUPS 235

10 PATRICK LANCELIN 236

11 DOUG MOSEL 238

12 JOHANNA HARMAN 240

13 MICHAEL PASSOFF 243

14 TIM CROWLEY 246

15 DON LUTHER 247

16 RON BUSH 249

17 MARGIE NULSEN 252

18 RICK ONSTAD 254

19 EARL BOOTIER 255

20 MILO APPEL 257

21 ANDREW BUTTS 258

22 CLARENCE HOSTLER 260

23 DEBORAH BRUCE 261

24 GERALD SARVINSKI 264

25 JIM ROBERTSON 265

00008

1 TIM COPPINI 267

2 VANORA CIULLO 268

3 SIERRA SIMPSON 269

4 ELLEN TAYLOR 271

5 BLAKE JOHNSGARD 273

6 BART GRUZALSKI 275

7 JULIA BUTTERFLY 276

8 PETER CHILDS 278

9 DANNY PINEDA 289

10 JAN LUNDBERG 282

11 CHRISTINE PREUCIL 284

12 APRIL RICHARDS 286

13 NAKOMA QUINN 289

14 MICHAEL SCHWARTZ 290

15 BILL JONES 291

16 CAROLYN DEPUCCI 292

17 JENNIFER SHARKEY 294

18 WENDY STEVENSON 296

19 JIM BRAGG 298

20 DAVID PEAKE 300

21 ANNE HUBBARD 302

22 NOEL SOUCY 304

23 HEATHER RAWSON 307

24 BRIAN BASOR 309

25 DANIEL KOSMAL 311

00009

1 RENEE NITZEL 314

2 GARY GUNDLACH 314

3 DEMOS BARCELOS 316

4 JIM HINRICHS 318

5 ROBERT PARKER 319

6 JASON WILSON 321

7 ISADORA SICKING 323

8 BARBARA BURNS 325

9 TRACY BROWN 327

10 MARK KNIPPER 328

11 ANNE WILLIS 330

00010

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Good morning. Welcome to this

2 public hearing.

3 United States Fish and Wildlife Service, the

4 National Marine Fisheries Service, the California State

5 Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, and the

6 California Department of Fish and Game are conducting a

7 joint process for taking comments on an Environmental

8 Impact Statement/Environmental Impact Report for the

9 Headwaters Forest Acquisition and the Pacific Lumber

10 Company's Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield

11 Plan.

12 My name is Richard DeClerck, and I'm an attorney

13 with the United States Department of the Interior, Office

14 of the Solicitor. I will be serving as the presiding

15 official for this hearing.

16 Here with me today on the podium are the following

17 agency representatives: Bruce Halstead, project leader,

18 Arcata Fish and Wildlife Service; Dean Ludtke, California

19 Department of Forestry and Fire Protection; and Bill

20 Hogarth, National Marine Fisheries Service.

21 You will find an information table at the back of

22 this room with written materials about the proposed action

23 in these documents.

24 At this point I'd like to introduce Bruce Halstead

25 and Dean Ludtke, who will make brief statements from these

00011

1 documents.

2 MR. HALSTEAD: Good morning. My name is Bruce

3 Halstead. I'm with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in

4 Arcata, and I'd like to make a few statements to put this

5 hearing in perspective for you.

6 The federal Endangered Species Act has established

7 protections for species listed as threatened and

8 endangered and provides for authorization of certain

9 impacts where such impacts comply with criteria

10 established by the Act.

11 If you can't hear me, raise your hand.

12 The most fundamental protection provided by the Act

13 is a prohibition against take of species listed under the

14 Act. Take includes actions that will kill, harass or harm

15 listed species. Incidental take is defined as take that

16 is incidental to, and not the purpose of, the carrying out

17 of an otherwise lawful activity. When incidental take may

18 result from the actions of state or local governments,

19 corporations or private individuals, Section 10 of the

20 Endangered Species Act directs the secretaries of the

21 Department of the Interior and the Department of Commerce

22 to issue permits for incidental take when certain

23 conditions are met by the applicant. Those conditions are

24 described in detail in the Act. Most importantly, the

25 applicant must submit a Habitat Conservation Plan, or HCP.

00012

1 Among other things, the HCP must describe the impact of

2 the taking and the steps the applicant will take to

3 minimize and mitigate such impacts. The standards for the

4 agency's evaluation of the HCP are also described in the

5 Act. Most importantly, the agencies must find that the

6 taking will not appreciably reduce the likelihood of

7 survival and recovery of the species in the wild. If the

8 statutory conditions are met, the incidental take permit

9 will be issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and

10 National Marine Fisheries Service.

11 The Pacific Lumber Company has prepared an HCP and

12 submitted an application for an incidental take permit for

13 several species. Also, the United States Congress and the

14 California legislature have approved appropriations for

15 acquisition of portions of Pacific Lumber's property if

16 the HCP is approved.

17 Because the issuance of the incidental take permit

18 is a federal action, the process is subject to review

19 under the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA. The

20 State of California is also undertaking environmental

21 review under the California Environmental Quality Act, or

22 CEQA. Therefore, the state and federal agencies have

23 entered into an agreement to prepare a single

24 environmental document called a joint EIS/EIR.

25 Impacts considered under NEPA and CEQA are not

00013

1 limited to the impacts on a listed species but include all

2 impacts of the action affecting the human environment. In

3 addition to evaluation of the effects of implementation of

4 the Habitat Conservation Plan, the joint EIS/EIR will

5 cover the impacts of the proposed acquisition.

6 This public meeting is conducted as part of the

7 public comment period on the EIR/EIS. The public comment

8 period will close on November 16th, 1998. Because the

9 Congressional appropriation includes a deadline of March

10 1st, 1999, for completion of the entire process, the

11 public comment period will not be extended beyond November

12 16th.

13 On behalf of the Fish and Wildlife Service and

14 National Marine Fisheries Service, I thank you for the

15 effort you have made to attend this meeting and also thank

16 you in advance for your comments.

17 Now we'll here some introductory words from the

18 representative of the state of California.

19 Dean?

20 MR. LUDTKE: Hello, I'm Dean Ludtke with the

21 California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

22 I'd like to read a brief statement into the record.

23 The California Department of Forestry and Fire

24 Protection is the state lead agency under the California

25 Environmental Quality Act for this project.

00014

1 Can you hear me okay?

2 The Department will use the Environmental Impact

3 Report to evaluate environmental impacts of the Sustained

4 Yield Plan submitted by the Pacific Lumber Company. The

5 Department will use the EIR to identify potentially

6 significant adverse impacts and to determine whether the

7 Sustained Yield Plan needs to be modified with

8 alternatives or feasible mitigation measures to avoid or

9 mitigate those impacts. The EIR is a joint document with

10 the federal Environmental Impact Statement.

11 Sustained Yield plans, or "SYP"'s for short, are one

12 of the mechanisms that timberland owners can use to meet

13 the state requirement for maintaining maximum sustained

14 production of high-quality timber products while giving

15 consideration to values relating to watershed, fisheries

16 and wildlife. SYP's must include projections of timber

17 growth and harvesting over at least a one-hundred-year

18 planning horizon, a Fish and Wildlife assessment and a

19 watershed assessment. Subsequent timber harvesting plans

20 may rely on the approved SYP to the extent that the issues

21 are addressed in it.

22 Following approval, the SYP is enforced for a period

23 of no more than ten years. The Department does not

24 normally prepare an EIR for Sustained Yield Plans, and

25 usually uses its Functional Equivalency under the Forest

00015

1 Practices Act. However, in this case it was judged to be

2 more efficient to prepare an EIR as a joint document with

3 the federal EIS.

4 That concludes my statement for the record.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

6 As stated, public comments on these documents will

7 be accepted until November 16th, 1998. After review and

8 consideration of the comments and all the information

9 gathered during the comment period, the agencies will

10 prepare a final Environmental Impact Statement/

11 Environmental Impact Report.

12 The purpose of this hearing is to receive your oral

13 comments on the proposals. The information you offer on

14 all aspects of these proposals is important and will be

15 carefully considered. Because of the importance of your

16 comments, it's necessary that we follow certain procedures

17 here this morning.

18 If you want to present comments at this hearing, you

19 must register at the table at the back of the room. When

20 you register, indicate any organization that you

21 represent. When you are called to present your comments,

22 please come forward to the microphones in the front.

23 Please begin your presentation stating your full name,

24 spell it, for accuracy for the record, and indicate what

25 organization you represent.

00016

1 In order to accept the maximum number of comments

2 into the record, I will call two names at a time, the next

3 speaker to come to the microphone, the following speaker

4 to come to the front. Because of the number of people who

5 wish to comment this morning and the limited time

6 available, we must ask that you limit your presentation to

7 two to three minutes. At the end of two minutes, I will

8 remind the speaker to sum up their statement.

9 This is an informal hearing, and therefore you will

10 not be questioned or cross-examined in connection with

11 your comments. Also, it is not possible to answer your

12 questions here. Official responses to issued raised

13 during the comment period will be stated in the

14 Environmental Impact Statement.

15 Your statements are being recorded by a certified

16 court reporter to accurately preserve them for the record.

17 Please keep in mind, however, that the reporter will not

18 record statements from the audience or which are made to

19 the audience. Comments must be made into the microphone.

20 In order to allow as many people as possible to

21 speak, it is very important that everyone maintain an

22 atmosphere of courtesy and respect for each speaker.

23 Thus, it is important to refrain from applause, argument,

24 cheering or other disruptions from the audience. It will

25 not be possible to take a clear record if there are

00017

1 disruptions. That's especially true when we have this

2 wind blowing on the door back here, so it's going to be

3 very important that we receive all of the comments and

4 they are taken down.

5 We'll maintain a fair and neutral atmosphere in

6 order to record the comments for the record. Instead of

7 presenting oral comments here this morning, or in addition

8 to the oral comments, you may submit comments in writing.

9 Written comments may be submitted today to the

10 registration table to the back of the room, and the same

11 is true for any exhibits you may want to make part of your

12 written or oral statement. And the court reporter will

13 make them part of the record. But please give them to the

14 back of the room, not up on the podium.

15 An address is available at the registration desk

16 also at the back of the room, if you wish to submit

17 written comments at a later date. However, all written

18 comments must be accepted and end no later than November

19 16th, 1998. Written comments will be given the same

20 consideration as oral comments presented here.

21 At this time, we are ready for our first speakers.

22 Would Stephen Dale and Alan Franklin please come to

23 the front.

24 Stephen, you are first.

25 MR. DALE: Good morning.

00018

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Good morning.

2 MR. DALE: Stephen Dale, D-A-L-E, and I represent

3 myself.

4 I'm a resource professional that's lived on the

5 North Coast for the last 24 years; and during that time

6 I've had an opportunity to both work in the woods and fish

7 salmon commercially. I'd like to make a few observations

8 about take -- although Mr. Halstead, I believe he cleared

9 up some of my questions about it -- but this take and take

10 permits seems peculiar to me. I understand that the

11 federal and state agencies are not supposed to license any

12 activity that would result in the take of either the

13 indirect take or immediate take of an endangered species.

14 I was in Trinidad this summer enjoying a nice sunny

15 afternoon, and there was a young Fish and Game employee,

16 probably a student, fisheries student, that was counting

17 the sport take that occurred that day. And I mentioned to

18 him that when we used to -- you know, if you're trolling

19 for chinook salmon, that occasionally you hook coho; and

20 before you can land and release those coho they often

21 drown, particularly if you're not quick getting them to

22 the boat. He informed me that this was incidental take

23 and that this was permitted because the person that made

24 the direct kill on the coho had purchased a sport-fishing

25 license. And this -- this kind of thing just doesn't --

00019

1 doesn't seem right to me or doesn't seem to balance out,

2 given all the efforts we're making to save the coho.

3 Indirect take via habitat degradation, mostly by

4 inputs of sediment that are logging-caused, seem to be the

5 center -- center-stage issue here with the PALCO HCP. I

6 spend a significant amount of time and effort in the field

7 trying to reduce or remove existing sediment from the

8 stream systems, yet when I'm driving around the

9 northwestern part of this country and within Humboldt

10 County, I still witness agricultural interests, farmers,

11 that are disking soils immediately adjacent to

12 fish-bearing streams. I also see ranchers running cattle

13 in Class I watercourses.

14 And, again, it all doesn't quite seem to add up to

15 me. It appears to me that the existing laws and the

16 enforcement thereof are not being -- are not being

17 enforced in a balanced nature.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your summation. Your

19 time is almost up.

20 MR. DALE: Okay. I'm in support of the PL HCP

21 because I think it's a gift, and I think it's a gift

22 that's not going to come walking by again. If the same

23 -- if the same protective measures found in the HCP were

24 applied to other industries in the state, then I think

25 that you'd learn soon and quickly what take means under

00020

1 the Fifth Amendment rather than from a wildlife point of

2 view.

3 Thank you very much.

4 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Stephen.

5 Before Alan speaks, is Robin Arkley here?

6 Robin, you'll be the next speaker.

7 Okay, Alan; your testimony, please.

8 MR. FRANKLIN: Hi. Thanks for this opportunity.

9 I'd much rather take this opportunity to express my

10 thoughts than to set up in a tree 200 feet in the air.

11 But to each his own.

12 My name is Alan Franklin. I am 40 years old, and

13 outside of one year, I've lived in Scotia all my life. So

14 I know what it is like to have lived and worked for PL

15 before Maxxam took it over and what it's been like since.

16 Just a little bit about myself to -- that makes me

17 feel that what I have to say today carries some weight of

18 authority and sincerity as opposed to maybe somebody

19 that's never been off the concrete in Oakland.

20 As a boy growing up in Scotia I was involved in the

21 Boy Scouts of America for ten years, in which I worked my

22 way up to the rank of Eagle Scout. I have been going

23 fishing and hunting, skin diving, since I was old enough

24 to keep up with my dad.

25 Besides working for Pacific Lumber Company, I rent

00021

1 mountain pasture in southern Humboldt for the purpose of

2 cattle ranching. And I am very proud of my Humboldt

3 native American ancestry. I truly have a great respect

4 for the land and its inhabitants and a better-than-average

5 education on what it takes to be a good steward of the

6 land.

7 So now the way I feel about the way things have been

8 going on around here for the last few years is that on one

9 hand you have a company that's went away from its

10 Sustained Yield Plan, and then on the other hand you have

11 environmentalists that truly want to run Maxxam out of

12 Humboldt County. And for a long time I've just been, you

13 know, minding my business and hoping for some common

14 ground; and now with this Habitat Conservation Plan, we

15 finally have it. And it will clearly protect plants and

16 wildlife and the land; and, just as importantly, it will

17 protect jobs. So I urge you to support and approve this

18 plan.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Alan.

21 Before Robin speaks, Rodney Sanderson.

22 Rodney, you'll be after Robin.

23 Robin, your testimony.

24 MR. ARKLEY: Yeah. My name is Robin Arkley. I'm 75

25 years old. I've lived in Arcata for 50 years. I've owned

00022

1 sawmills both here and other places, I've owned

2 timberlands and logged, so I believe I have a fair working

3 knowledge of the problems these plans encounter.

4 We know the role of PALCO is to provide zealous

5 stewardship and management of their timber resources, with

6 the key to their success being managed from the bottom up,

7 not from the boardroom down. I believe the efforts on the

8 part of PALCO are a hundred percent sincere, and hopefully

9 will free PALCO from the turmoil of the past and the

10 constant whipsawing they've been subjected to. This will

11 benefit the employees, the public and the company.

12 Thank you.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Robin.

14 Before Rodney speaks, Dale Welch.

15 Dale, you'll be after Rodney.

16 MR. SANDERSON: My name is Rodney Sanderson,

17 S-A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. I'm a native of Humboldt County. I

18 was born in Scotia in 1950. I have worked at Pacific

19 Lumber Company for 25 years. I've also served as pastor

20 of the Rio Dell Baptist Church in Rio Dell for the past

21 seven years. So I feel my history as native son and PALCO

22 employee and a minister to our small congregation in Rio

23 Dell gives me a unique insight into the enormous cultural,

24 economic and sociological effect that your decision to

25 approve or disapprove the Headwaters Forest acquisition

00023

1 proposal will produce.

2 Even though the good science has been used to

3 formulate these plans so that they could be approved on

4 their scientific excellence alone, I feel that on their

5 scientific excellence alone they should be approved.

6 The heart-wrenching, employment-ending blight that

7 disapproval of these plans will cause in my town and

8 county far outweighs any protests or any demands for

9 concessions that will never be enough anyway. Disapproval

10 of these plans will have a long-lasting lethal effect upon

11 the very social fabric of our hometowns. Our homes, my

12 wife, my children and my grandchildren.

13 As a PALCO employee, I've closely monitored the

14 progress of this bitter struggle between our company and

15 the preservationists. I call them preservationists

16 because we are the environmentalists. I am an

17 environmentalist. If we were not responsible stewards of

18 our private timberlands, we would have been out of

19 business many years ago. Instead, we have gone about

20 harvesting and replanting our renewable resource for 130

21 years.

22 Now, there's already some 200,000 acres of redwoods

23 preserved in national and state parks that are there to be

24 enjoyed and never to be cut. This fact doesn't seem to

25 make as much news as does saving last old-growth forests

00024

1 in private ownership. These plans are conservative; they

2 provide for the critical balance between proper use of our

3 timberland and minimal impact upon endangered species. I

4 am an endangered species.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your summation.

6 MR. SANDERSON: Yes, sir.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

8 MR. SANDERSON: Yes, sir.

9 As a native son, I've seen my community of hard-

10 working, mostly blue-collar families decline from a sense

11 of unity where strong families and generational bonding --

12 that it was people first and children first -- to a

13 polarized, mean-spirited region where the attitude that

14 humans are only parasites to nature, and that by any means

15 "it must be earth first" is being fostered no matter what

16 the cost.

17 Great protest is being made about some supposed evil

18 corporate entities to save indigenous species. I am an

19 indigenous species. As a minister I see the threat to

20 those in Rio Dell and Scotia in this area that are on the

21 fringe of poverty. We know that all things work together

22 for good, to them that love God and are called according

23 to his purpose; but, at the same time, great havoc in

24 homes and the propensity for spousal abuse and child abuse

25 need not be fueled by unnecessary economic trauma that

00025

1 will be due to your negative ruling on this proposal.

2 I've invested my life in this area historically,

3 economically and spiritually; so I urge you to lawfully

4 consider the cast -- really bad -- catastrophic, there you

5 have it -- negative impact on myself and mine, my children

6 and my grandchildren.

7 Gentlemen, please accept this as submitted, as we

8 have written them, the HCP and the SYP.

9 Thank you.

10 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Rodney.

11 Colum Coyne will be after Dale.

12 Dale, your testimony.

13 MR. WELCH: Thank you.

14 Good morning. My name is Dale Welch, and I'm here

15 this morning to urge this panel to accept the HCP and SYP

16 plans as submitted by the Pacific Lumber Company.

17 I have lived in Humboldt County since 1953 and

18 worked at PALCO since 1971. I am an assistant shipping

19 foreman. My employment at PALCO has allowed me to raise

20 and support my family and to be a productive, contributing

21 member of our local community.

22 The Pacific Lumber Company has had a long and varied

23 history in Humboldt County. Currently they are the

24 largest private employer in our area. For this to

25 continue, however, the Headwaters Agreement Habitat

00026

1 Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan must be

2 approved as proposed. These plans represent a

3 comprehensive, workable compromise that has been reviewed

4 and studied by all the governmental agencies influencing

5 the resolution of this issue.

6 The funding has been approved for this agreement

7 after years of political and bureaucratic jockeying.

8 During this time PALCO has had a great deal of difficulty

9 continuing to operate on a steady, reliable basis. Much

10 to our credit, however, PALCO and its employees have made

11 concessions that have enabled our operations to carry on.

12 As time progresses, however, PALCO's options are becoming

13 more and more limited, with the definite possibility of

14 widespread layoffs and mill closures.

15 Many people are familiar with the provision of the

16 Headwaters Agreement and the HCP/SYP plans, have been led

17 to believe by so-called environmental groups that the only

18 workable solution to these issues is a nearly complete

19 cessation of all of PALCO's timber operations. That is

20 not the case.

21 If these individuals were really familiar with the

22 comprehensive provision of these plans, they cannot

23 honestly be -- continue to be opposed to PALCO's position.

24 Much time and effort and money has been spent on these

25 studies, and it appears that the process leading to their

00027

1 approval is almost finished.

2 I urge you, for the continued economic health of our

3 community and our way of life, to accept them as submitted

4 and allow the Pacific Lumber Company to continue to

5 operate and make history into the twenty-first century and

6 beyond.

7 Thank you.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dale.

9 After Colum, John -- John Sneed will be the next

10 speaker after Colum.

11 Your testimony?

12 MR. COYNE: Mr. Halstead, my name is Colum Coyne. I

13 was a third-generation PALCO shareholder until 1985, when

14 PALCO was raided by the Maxxam Corporation and we were

15 forced to sell.

16 I'm also president of the Mattole Salmon Group.

17 Since 1980, the Mattole Salmon Group has been working with

18 our native-run king and coho salmon. We've seen small

19 increases in numbers of adult-returning fish since 1990.

20 This plan, if fully implemented, will wipe out the salmon

21 of the Mattole.

22 I remember when people would point to PALCO and say,

23 "What a good company. They grow more than they cut. They

24 take care of their workers. They take care of their

25 land." PALCO was a tangible and respected member of this

00028

1 community. It's not like that anymore. Now that Maxxam

2 is in charge, greed and speed are the words of the day.

3 Maxxam's Habitat Conservation Plan is a bad idea

4 because it robs the economies of Humboldt County and

5 California. The HCP ruins any chance we have of restoring

6 a viable salmon fishery to Northern California.

7 We used to have 40,000 people employed in the salmon

8 industry on the North Coast. We have a fraction of that

9 now. We could have that again, but only if we take care

10 of what we have left. If we nurture and respect the last

11 places where crucial cold water seeps the sustained coho

12 and other salmonids, we have hope. If we give in to the

13 quick-buck mentality, our entire local economy will

14 collapse.

15 Our once-great salmon industry is on its last legs

16 already due to the cumulative impact of irresponsible

17 logging in the watersheds of our spawning streams. Our

18 tourist industry is another cash cow that Maxxam is trying

19 to slaughter. If the view sheds are shattered and the

20 rivers are choked with silt and debris, there will be no

21 free-spending sport fishermen or other outdoor enthusiasts

22 pumping our economy.

23 After the Maxxam gets to cut for a few years,

24 they'll have to lay off their workers. They will have

25 created a bust to go with their boom. None of this is

00029

1 necessary. With proper land management, we can have a

2 win-win-win situation: a healthy fishery, viable tourism,

3 and a sensible timber industry.

4 Another reason the HCP is no good is that it

5 emasculates the Endangered Species Act. The ESA is a

6 decent law given to us by that great conservationist,

7 Richard Nixon. We still have bald eagles and gray whales

8 because of the ESA. The HCP will allow the killing of

9 many of our North Coast endangered species: tailed frogs,

10 the southern torrent salamander, and the coho salmon will

11 be up for Maxxam's take.

12 PRESIDING OFFICER: Colum, I need your summation.

13 MR. COYNE: I'm just about done.

14 These aquatic animals need adequate refugia, for

15 survival. The HCP does not address this. Do not override

16 the ESA.

17 There are many other reasons that the HCP should be

18 denied. I will touch on a few.

19 There's no real plan for avoiding mass wasting.

20 Even in areas listed in the HCP as extreme landslide-

21 hazard areas are slated for clearcut. This makes no

22 sense, and there are no repercussions for the company when

23 extensive mass wasting does occur. Mass wasting kills

24 salmon and communities. Ask Stafford.

25 Maxxam cannot be trusted. We need monitoring of

00030

1 Maxxam's operations; we need monitoring of Maxxam's

2 science. This monitoring must be peer-reviewed, and the

3 public must be involved. The HCP and SYP should N-O-T be

4 approved.

5 These plans have sounded the death knell for the

6 fishing and tourist industries, and it will change

7 the timber business on the North Coast forever. In the

8 long run, these sick and greedy plans will steal good

9 jobs, excellent quality of life, and untold millions of

10 dollars from future generations of Californians.

11 Sincerely, Colum Coyne.

12 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Colum.

13 MR. SNEED: My name is John Sneed, S-N-E-E-D. I'm a

14 resident of Humboldt County and have been involved in the

15 preservation of Humboldt for about 30 years. The conflict

16 over the Headwaters Forest itself has been brewing for

17 over ten years. Numerous initiatives and legislative

18 proposals have been put forward over the years but have

19 failed passage of ill-conceived proposals or due to a lack

20 of support in the public or from the -- by the public or

21 the intervening agencies.

22 The negotiations between the Pacific Lumber Company

23 and the state and federal agencies have resulted in the

24 most viable and reasonable solution to the conflict. The

25 battle over the Headwaters Forest has created a

00031

1 divisive atmosphere in the community, pitting those

2 citizens that embrace reasonable management and

3 utilization of our natural resources against those that

4 want to leave man out of the forest.

5 I urge you to accept and approve the current SYP and

6 HCP proposals as described under Alternative 2 of the EIR.

7 As a registered professional forester, I recognize the

8 need for protecting species and habitat, but I also

9 recognize the need to provide for society's demands for

10 renewable forest products. The Sustained Yield Plan

11 requires that the company assure that it will continue to

12 manage lands into the future to provide for the continued

13 production of the wood products we all use, while also

14 ensuring protection of wildlife, water quality and other

15 forest resources. This means continued employment for the

16 community and the ability of the local government to

17 provide services to its citizens with the taxes generated

18 from the sustainable harvest of forest products.

19 The Habitat Conservation Plan is based upon the best

20 available science and current range of knowledge about the

21 wildlife inhabiting PL's ownership. This base of

22 information for the HCP has been developed with the input

23 of and consensus of the most reknown experts in their

24 appointed fields, and requirements in the plan will be

25 monitored by agencies for compliance with rigorous

00032

1 provisions in the plan. This is the most comprehensive

2 plan ever developed for private timberlands in the country

3 and the result of arduous discussion and negotiation

4 resulting in bipartisan support, including the agencies

5 involved.

6 The local community has benefitted from the Pacific

7 Lumber Company's contributions over the years. During

8 1997 alone, PL paid out over $123 million to its

9 employees, contractors, and payments in taxes. These

10 dollars also roll over to pay other people in the support

11 industries in the local communities. The Pacific Lumber

12 Company also pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to

13 local charities and scholarships to local college-bound

14 students each year.

15 The positive economic and social consequences of an

16 approved SYP and HCP cannot be overemphasized. This is a

17 good thing for the local communities and the continued

18 protection of our natural resources.

19 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion, John.

20 MR. SNEED: It would be a travesty to my family, the

21 local community and the forest not to approve Alternative

22 2 as proposed in the EIR for the Headwaters Forest.

23 Thank you.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

25 Dan. Dan Broyles?

00033

1 Dan, you will give testimony after Bruce.

2 Bruce, your testimony.

3 MR. CHAPMAN: Thank you. My name is Bruce Chapman,

4 C-H-A-P-M-A-N.

5 I have a 24-year professional work history in the

6 forest-products industry of Northern California.

7 Approximately half these years have been dedicated to

8 Humboldt County, where I currently reside. My purpose

9 here is to put into the public hearing record my adamant

10 support for the HCP put forward by the Pacific Lumber

11 Company. I do this as a registered professional forester,

12 as a concerned parent and taxpayer in this county, and as

13 an employee of the Pacific Lumber Company.

14 My support for this document stems directly from

15 having knowledge of and experience with the processes

16 involved in establishing the where, what, how and why such

17 manifesto is created. The HCP was developed with

18 renowned, experienced, forward-thinking scientific minds.

19 These people are dedicated professionals of academia and

20 are individually and collectively dedicated to studying,

21 learning, discovering solutions relating to scientific

22 issues associated with HCP processes.

23 Nature is a dynamic process. When nature presents

24 nuances, the HCP is designed to incorporate and

25 scientifically account for changes as they occur. The

00034

1 HCP's intent is to be site-specific and directly relate to

2 scienced-based decisions made by those qualified to do so.

3 What I know this HCP is not, it is not a document

4 developed from static, closed minds making attempts to

5 blend hocus-pocus, anecdotal opinions with politics to

6 carve out cookie-cutter concepts and solutions to complex

7 issues. The HCP not only exhibits a long-term dynamic

8 management plan for properties and ecosystems of one

9 owner; it may also become a long-term management plan for

10 the Humboldt County economy and potential template for the

11 forest-products industry as a whole in Humboldt County and

12 perhaps elsewhere.

13 The forest-products industry in Humboldt for decades

14 has achieved significant scientific advances in forest

15 resource management and related fields through research

16 and dedication to the profession. Because of individual

17 and collective achievements by those of us fortunate

18 enough to be associated with this mode of livelihood, we

19 know that the resources we deal with on a daily basis will

20 be positively enhanced and sustained for all time.

21 Common sense dictates it would be foolish to think

22 or do otherwise. If one of us does think in such a

23 close-minded fashion, the outcome will be a deleterious

24 and negative impact to us as individuals and to the

25 communities we live and work in. This is not what the HCP

00035

1 is about or what it represents.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion.

3 MR. CHAPMAN: Thank you.

4 Being Humboldt County's primary economic employer,

5 the company is scientifically and economically -- stream

6 of forest products. And in doing so, as a stand-alone

7 company and in tandem with other forest-products-related

8 companies of Humboldt County that are involved in the HCP

9 process, the Pacific Lumber Company has without a doubt

10 dedicated itself to the natural resources we work and live

11 with, to the supporting people of our communities, and to

12 the economic well being of our county.

13 Thank you very much.

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bruce.

15 The court reporter has asked if you're going to be

16 reading your statement, slow down. Your natural tendency

17 is to run a little fast, and it's hard to get all of the

18 information down.

19 After Dan, Charles Fuentes.

20 Charles, you'll be the next speaker, then.

21 Dan, your testimony, please.

22 MR. BROYLES: Good morning. My name is Dan Broyles,

23 B-R-O-Y-L-E-S, and I was born and raised in Humboldt

24 County. I have a wife and kids and I'm buying a home. My

25 plans are to stay right here.

00036

1 I have been a mill worker for 24 years, and almost

2 all the money I have earned in the lumber industry has

3 been spent right here in Humboldt County, therefore being

4 a part of the economic balance of this county. If this

5 plan fails to pass, I wind up unemployed. I will no

6 longer be a participating part of this economic balance of

7 this county. I am only one man. We are only one family

8 of four. There are many families of four participating in

9 Humboldt County's economic balance who also depend on the

10 lumber industry for their economic balance.

11 Without the lumber industry in Humboldt, there is no

12 economy. Without economic balance, there will be no

13 Humboldt. Humboldt is the lumber industry, and the lumber

14 industry makes up Humboldt County.

15 Thank you.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dan.

17 After Charles will be Bruce Beck.

18 Charles?

19 MR. FUENTES: Good morning. We're here to talk

20 about the Headwaters Agreement and the Habitat

21 Conservation Plan, and I thank you for the opportunity to

22 speak.

23 My name is Charles Fuentes, F-U-E-N-T-E-S. I'm

24 employed by the Pacific Lumber Company, and I'm here to

25 speak in favor of the Headwaters Agreement and the HCP.

00037

1 I moved to Humboldt County from Arizona in 1973. I

2 was 23 years old then and had many of the same concerns

3 about the conservation of our timberlands as many of the

4 people in this room. I still have the same concerns

5 today. I have to. I have an 11-year-old daughter, and

6 the issues we discuss here today directly affect our

7 future.

8 If the Headwaters Agreement and the HCP is not

9 accepted, I don't believe my family has a future in this

10 community. Without responsible decisions being made here

11 today, people throughout Humboldt County will have their

12 lives adversely changed. The negative effects of the loss

13 of timber-related jobs will not only harm the men and

14 women that work within the industry but the rest of the

15 population as well.

16 Without these jobs, who will replace the people

17 shopping at the local grocery stores? Who's going to

18 employ the people picking up their new cars at the auto

19 dealership? Where are the tax dollars going to come from

20 to maintain our schools and highways?

21 The HCP is the result of a well-planned scientific

22 research designed to guarantee a future for both the

23 people who live and work in this area and the natural

24 habitat as well. Great efforts by both the Pacific Lumber

25 Company and those opposing the Headwaters Agreement HCP

00038

1 have been made to ensure the integrity of the forest and

2 the wildlife within. The same effort must be devoted to

3 protecting our jobs and therefore the future of the

4 families of this entire community, as the acceptance or

5 refusal of this plan will greatly affect each and everyone

6 in this county.

7 To amplify my point -- you're going to like this --

8 I am now exhibiting a picture of a spotted owl. A great

9 deal of research has gone towards the preservation of this

10 animal while planning the HCP.

11 Okay. Where am I?

12 Next I show you a picture of the coho salmon.

13 Tremendous concern has also been given to this species of

14 fish.

15 I unfortunately do not have a picture of the marbled

16 murrelet, chinook salmon, steelhead, and cutthroat trout,

17 all of which are primary focus points of the HCP.

18 I got you.

19 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your summation, Charles.

20 MR. FUENTES: I got you.

21 What I do have is a school class picture. I show

22 you this and ask you that these kids from a local school

23 be given the same opportunity to continue to prosper here

24 in this community, as this is their natural habitat as

25 well.

00039

1 Thanks for your time.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Charles.

3 Roger Sanderson? Roger, you'll be after Bruce.

4 Bruce, your testimony.

5 MR. BECK: My name is Bruce Beck, and I'm a

6 registered professional forester. I have worked for the

7 Pacific Lumber Company almost 20 years. I have lived in

8 Humboldt County approximately 22 years. In addition, I am

9 married and have a 13-year-old daughter.

10 It is my understanding that the Habitat Conservation

11 Plan specifically provides for commercial operations and/

12 or developments so long as species and sufficient habitats

13 are protected. Furthermore, it is also my understanding

14 that by agreeing to a Sustained Yield Plan, a company

15 commits it won't cut more timber than it grows.

16 The fact is, while I fully support protecting

17 species and habitat, my company needs predictable and

18 dependable sources of timber to run our sawmills.

19 Therefore, I am here to speak in favor of the Headwaters

20 Agreement and, in particular, the HCP and SYP that has

21 been proposed for all of PALCO's forestlands.

22 PALCO's HCP is the most comprehensive ever developed

23 for privately owned forestlands in the United States.

24 While the impetus for this effort is habitat conservation,

25 species protection and sustainable forestry, the economic

00040

1 vitality of a region is at stake and must have an equal

2 place at the table.

3 Employing more than 1500 people directly, PALCO is

4 by far the largest private employer in Humboldt County.

5 It generates more than $170 million of economic activity

6 annually, and indirectly provides thousands of other jobs

7 in such areas as construction trades, home building and

8 retailing. PALCO pays millions of dollars in yield taxes,

9 and 80 percent goes directly to schools and roads.

10 The winners in all of this are the forest that will

11 be saved, the fish and wildlife that will be protected,

12 and the jobs that will be preserved, and the

13 Constitutional property rights that will be upheld.

14 I am not a scientist, but I'm a working RPF. I am

15 convinced because of the extensive involvement of those

16 who are scientists that this plan not only is sound, it is

17 conservative; and it is our last chance to save the

18 Headwaters and other lands we consider vital to preserve.

19 There simply won't be another chance. It would be a

20 tragedy beyond belief to miss this opportunity. Therefore,

21 I ask all concerned to get on with the task to finalize

22 the plans that are before you. Please recognize the

23 economic impacts that this plan has on me, family, my

24 company and my community. It is the key to my economic

25 future.

00041

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bruce.

3 John Lynott will be after Roger.

4 Roger, your testimony.

5 MR. SANDERSON: Good morning. My name is Roger

6 Sanderson, S-A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. I'm an employee of the

7 Pacific Lumber Company and very proud of it.

8 I'm here today to defend a way of life for many

9 families. In my six years as an employee of PALCO, I've

10 been given an opportunity to ply my skills and make a

11 living, a very good living, at that. The Pacific Lumber

12 Company has been very different from other companies that

13 I have worked for; for instance, in the way PALCO looks

14 out for its employees.

15 I see PALCO keep its employees working when

16 moratoriums have been placed on Timber Harvest Plans.

17 Other timber companies would have curtailed operations and

18 laid off many of its work force. When work in the woods

19 is slowed because of winter, those loggers are given the

20 opportunity to work in the mill to keep their check coming

21 in and their bills paid.

22 PALCO provides many jobs in the area through direct

23 employment in one of its operations or other jobs related

24 to the timber industry. In short, PALCO is a vital part

25 of our community and its health and welfare.

00042

1 As I said before, I'm proud to be a PALCO employee.

2 I am also a Christian and very proud of that. I'm a

3 minister of music and deacon at the Rio Dell Baptist

4 Church; and as I was contemplating what to say at these

5 proceedings, a scripture kept coming to mind.

6 You may be thinking what does the Bible have to do

7 with this situation? Well, if you reach into your pocket

8 and pull out a coin or a bill, you'll see that each one

9 has been boldly printed or stamped with "In God We Trust."

10 Here, the very thing that is dearest to most American

11 hearts, money, have the statement about trust in God on

12 it. In fact, the very foundation of our great country is

13 built upon has its roots and principles found in the

14 Bible, the word of God.

15 So what does God and the scriptures got to do this

16 these proceedings? Everything. The scripture that keeps

17 coming to mind is Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 28. Let me

18 read it to you:

19 "And God blessed them; and God said unto them, "Be

20 fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth and

21 subdue it."

22 God is saying --

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Roger, a little bit slower on

24 the reading, but also I need your summation.

25 MR. SANDERSON: God is saying to care for the earth

00043

1 as a gardener cares for his garden, but to also utilize

2 its resources. Here we see God's Sustained Yield Plan.

3 What an awesome responsibility God has given us.

4 Now through ignorance and greed, man has sometimes

5 raped and destroyed the land and its resources. In the

6 past the timber industry has been no exception. But how

7 long will we have to pay for past mistakes? It's time for

8 the focus to be taken from the past and to be put into the

9 modern timber practices and forest management techniques

10 proposed in PL's HCP and SYP. Here highly skilled

11 foresters and management techniques, skilled foresters and

12 biologists have produced effective plans for effective

13 sustained yield and habitat conservation.

14 I believe PALCO's Sustained Yield Plan and Habitat

15 Conservation Plan are the most accomplished and

16 comprehensive ever devised. I support the Headwaters

17 Agreement, the Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained

18 Yield Plan; and I encourage you to do the same.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Roger.

21 John Lynott. And after John, Dennis Schlotzhauer.

22 John?

23 MR. LYNOTT: Good morning. My name is John Lynott,

24 L-Y-N-O-T-T. I'm an employee of Scotia Pacific Company, a

25 Humboldt State University graduate in Forestry. I'm a

00044

1 forestry technician. I've lived here in Humboldt and

2 Mendocino County most of my life.

3 I wish to express my support for the HCP, both as a

4 means of providing habitat for forest species and to end

5 long-term divisive conflict here on the North Coast. I

6 understand that some are asking for wider streamside zones

7 as per the FEMAT recommendations. I submit that

8 ever-widening watercourse and lake protection zones are

9 not the answer to salmon restoration. There are a number

10 of other factors to consider, and these include

11 residential development within watercourse zones,

12 environmental and biological factors in the estuaries,

13 water diversion, international fishing, and environmental

14 factors out in the ocean. These are conditions that must

15 be factored into the complex equation of aquatic habitat.

16 Common sense and the literature bear this out.

17 I work in the woods and am well aware, probably more

18 than most, of how much habitat is provided in the

19 watercourse zones and elsewhere under this proposed

20 agreement. A hundred seventy foot on either side of a

21 Class I fish-bearing creek and a hundred foot on

22 either side of other streams that provide aquatic habitat

23 for nonfish species are far beyond any regs anywhere.

24 Based on the retention standards in these zones, many of

25 these watercourse and lake protection zones are entirely

00045

1 no-cut areas.

2 The present command and control system of

3 enforcing the Endangered Species Act is not working.

4 Consultation on every project, while well meaning, is

5 uneven, and arbitrary, at best. In addition, we all enjoy

6 the benefits of diversity while the cost is borne by a

7 disproportionate few.

8 All species, threatened and otherwise, need habitat;

9 and they can't differentiate between public and private

10 lands. However, the present system is a disincentive for

11 landowners, and in turn biodiversity.

12 I urge you to move forward and approve this document

13 as is. No company can give up 60 percent of its assets

14 and expect to remain in business. Please consider my

15 remarks on streamside zones and the socioeconomic impacts

16 when you make your final decision.

17 Thank you.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

19 After Dennis will be Nick. Nick Bolt, please.

20 Dennis, your testimony.

21 MR. SCHLOTZHAUER: Good morning. My name is Dennis

22 Schlotzhauer. My name is spelled S-C-H-L-O-T-Z-H-A-U-E-R.

23 I would like to first of all say that I support the

24 Headwaters Forest Agreement, the HCP and the SYP as they

25 are written. I would also like to bring up a point about

00046

1 Mr. Coyne's comments. Obviously, he hasn't read the plan

2 or the HCP. Because if this is a quick buck, ten years is

3 a pretty quick buck, if you ask me. This plan has been

4 many, many years in the process.

5 I'd also like to point out that's -- the statements

6 were nothing new. They've been the same for ten years.

7 They get up here, they say what they don't like, but they

8 give no solutions. It's real easy to get up here and

9 whine about every little detail that doesn't fit their

10 agenda a hundred percent; but once again, zero solutions,

11 zero compromise. Nothing's changed.

12 I was here at the last hearing as well as all the

13 hearings, and I was told by the environmental propaganda

14 center in Garberville that my speech was nothing but

15 emotional rhetoric. Well, I looked up "emotional

16 rhetoric" in the dictionary, and the definition by Webster

17 is language that is showy, elaborate, but largely empty of

18 clear ideas or sincere emotion.

19 I would hate to think that feeding my family,

20 putting a roof over my kid's head, and providing a good

21 education for them falls under this definition. I would

22 like to think that these are my rights under the

23 Constitution rather than emotional rhetoric.

24 I'd like to give you an analogy today of the

25 Headwaters Forest Agreement and these hearings. This is a

00047

1 perfect analogy of our recent elections, which was a

2 perfect example of propaganda. The special-interest

3 groups went after the uneducated vote and got it with

4 propaganda. Don't let all the propaganda that you're

5 going to hear today cloud your view of the facts.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion, Dennis.

7 MR. SCHLOTZHAUER: Okay.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

9 MR. SCHLOTZHAUER: I am thoroughly convinced that

10 you will approve this plan based on the facts. But if

11 you're worried for the opposition's future, rest assured;

12 they will find something else and/or another cause to

13 whine about. This is what they do, and they're good at

14 it.

15 There are two futures here as I see it: People

16 working, paying taxes and contributing to a local economy

17 for the better of all; or people without good-paying jobs

18 and people who suck the life out of the system and thrive

19 off others misfortune. I want to be part of the first

20 example. How about you?

21 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

22 After Nick it will be John. John Kennon.

23 Nick, your testimony, please.

24 MR. BOLT: Bolt, B-O-L-T.

25 I'm representing Manell and Sherman. That's an

00048

1 industrial supply.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Nick, a little closer to the

3 microphone.

4 Thank you.

5 MR. BOLT: I'm representing Manell and Sherman, an

6 industrial supply house locally here. We've been in

7 business since 1915. We're self-employed, employee-owned.

8 We're in it for the long-term, and on that aspect we

9 support the Pacific Lumber's proposals.

10 On the private end of it, as a private timber owner

11 and landowner, I'm involved in the logging on a yearly

12 basis and a sustained yield. I understand these

13 practices, and I strongly support and urge that you guys

14 support this plan.

15 Thank you.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Nick.

17 After John it will be Rhett Imperiale.

18 Okay, John. Your testimony, please.

19 MR. KENNON: Good morning. My name's John Kennon.

20 That's K-E-N-N-O-N. And in just a few short months I'll

21 be a 38-year employee of Pacific Lumber Company. And I'm

22 here this morning because I'm worried about my job. And

23 I'm representing myself, even though I have spent all

24 these years with the company.

25 Our industry, the timber industry, is one of the

00049

1 most heavily regulated industries in California, and if

2 these new regulations and restrictions that are being

3 asked for by the environmental groups are enacted, I

4 believe that our company will be regulated right out of

5 business. The effect of the economy of Humboldt County

6 and myself, I think, will be devastating. I would stand a

7 good chance of becoming a liability to the state and

8 county welfare programs, and I don't want that to happen.

9 As far as the county goes, the loss of tax dollars,

10 wage dollars, business dollars will be far reaching, much

11 further reaching than most people believe. I think the

12 county would again have trouble balancing their budget,

13 schools will receive less money, and many small businesses

14 wouldn't survive.

15 I personally talked to the employees of two small

16 local businesses, and they've all said that they can tell

17 immediately when we curtail our hours or limit the number

18 of days that we work in our operation. Their business

19 slows down, with less people coming in to buy their

20 products.

21 The most common way for the environmental groups to

22 attack not only our industry but all corporate businesses

23 seems to be through the Endangered Species Act. I have a

24 short quote here from the Greenpeace cofounder and forest

25 ecologist Dr. Patrick Moore that he made when he appeared

00050

1 before more than a hundred members of Congress and their

2 staff recently. He explained that he had become

3 disillusioned by the extremism and intolerance of the

4 environmental movement, which led him to sever

5 connections with the organization that he had helped to

6 create.

7 Dr. Moore debunked many myths concerning

8 clearcutting and endangered species. He said, and I

9 quote, "To the best of our knowledge, not a single species

10 has become extinct in North America due to forestry. We

11 should use more wood, not less, rather than the

12 nonrenewable alternatives such as steel, cement and

13 plastic that require more energy to produce," the end of

14 quote. He sounds like a sensible environmentalist to me.

15 PRESIDING OFFICER: John, I need your summary.

16 MR. KENNON: What I'm asking you to do is take a

17 reasonable approach -- take good science, proven

18 scientific facts, and apply them to these regulations --

19 and then approve the Headwaters plan and the Habitat

20 Conservation Plan so that we can continue -- continue to

21 contribute to our communities and to Humboldt County.

22 Thank you.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

24 After Rhett will be Mark. It will be Mark Mueller

25 then.

00051

1 Okay. Rhett, your testimony.

2 MR. IMPERIALE: Good morning. My name is Rhett

3 Imperiale. It's R-H-E-T-T I-M-P-E-R-I-A-L-E.

4 I'm a forestry technician. I have lived in Humboldt

5 County for 30 years. Upon earning a bachelor's degree in

6 1989, and after being honorably discharged from the United

7 States Army, I was hired by the Pacific Lumber Company,

8 where I now have worked for nearly seven years. I am

9 married and have two children.

10 It is clearly evident to both the scientific

11 community and to the reasonable and prudent members of our

12 society that the Headwaters Agreement, the HCP and the SYP

13 will protect species and habitat while providing a

14 predictable and dependable source of timber to supply to

15 our company's sawmills. The environmental benefits of

16 this agreement are so obvious that I feel compelled to

17 discuss the not-so-obvious human element in relationship

18 to its success or failure.

19 It will likely be stated numerous times that the

20 Pacific Lumber Company is the largest private employer in

21 the county and that it pays millions of dollars in taxes

22 annually. However, these figures have a story behind them

23 in the form of employees and their lives. This can best

24 be understood if I use a story of my life as an example.

25 My job with PALCO, like all jobs, could be described

00052

1 as a tradeoff, where I am given money and benefits in

2 return for my labor. I then use the money to pay bills,

3 such as house, car payments and buy groceries. It is a

4 simple economic cycle, where everyone from the government

5 down to the farmer benefits from my having a job and

6 spending the money I make throughout the community.

7 The economic contributions made by the Pacific

8 Lumber Company to this county extend much farther than

9 most understand. In fact, my father, who owns a trucking

10 company, is a vendor for Pacific Lumber. He depends upon

11 its timber, as do his employees. My mother, who works for

12 Renner Petroleum, providing fuel and many other products

13 to PALCO, depends upon its timber. My sister, who owns a

14 mortgage company which services hundreds of PALCO employee

15 home loans depends upon its timber. My father's father is

16 successfully retired from the timber industry. My

17 mother's father is a certified public accountant who

18 services timber-related businesses, depends upon its

19 timber. My wife's father, a third-generation, 30-year

20 employee of PALCO, depends upon its timber. All of my

21 immediate family and friends depend both directly and

22 indirectly upon the financial viability of the Pacific

23 Lumber Company.

24 I got you.

25 The economic importance of this company cannot be

00053

1 overemphasized. I have been allowed three minutes to

2 explain what couldn't be fully justified in less than 30

3 days of testimony. I have just described in real terms

4 how my life's affected by Pacific Lumber Company. The

5 other 1,500 employees have similar, if not identical,

6 stories regarding the importance of this great company in

7 their lives.

8 I believe, as the obvious scientific and economic

9 reasons for the necessary approval of the current

10 Headwaters Agreement, this particular agreement

11 illustrates how protecting the environment does not

12 simultaneously result in a loss of honorable jobs within

13 an area already deficient of diversity and opportunity.

14 Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak

15 in support of this historical agreement.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Rhett.

17 After Mark, it will be Richard Robbins.

18 Mark, your testimony, please.

19 MR. MUELLER: Hello. My name is Mark Mueller. My

20 last name is spelled M-U-E-L-L-E-R.

21 Here we are again begging the mercy of some

22 regulatory agency that was set up to defend monied

23 interests to please uphold our environmental laws. While

24 those who are tired of Maxxam Corporation's disregard for

25 the forest are taking time -- we are taking time from our

00054

1 livelihoods, Maxxam pays employees to be at these hearings

2 today.

3 In the first hundred years of United States history

4 corporations we were dissolved -- corporations were

5 dissolved when they were found to break the law. Now,

6 when Maxxam Corporation illegally logs millions of dollars

7 of redwoods in a riparian zone, hauls them out, then turns

8 itself in two weeks later, Maxxam corporation gets to keep

9 the logs and gets a couple-of-grand tax-deductible fine.

10 As many other speakers have and will say, hopefully

11 in detail, this HCP is heavily flawed. To think Maxxam

12 Corporation will follow this HCP for 50 years, let alone

13 one year, is incomprehensible. This HCP is no more than a

14 way to further isolate Maxxam Corporation from the laws of

15 this state and country and hence from the authority

16 through democracy of the citizens.

17 Thank you.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Mark.

19 After Richard Robbins it will be Stan Johnson.

20 MR. ROBBINS: Good morning. My name is Richard

21 Robbins, R-O-B-B-I-N-S.

22 I've lived in Humboldt County for over 40 years. I

23 was raised in Carlotta, where my parents owned and

24 operated a country store. I was raised with the ideals of

25 family, faith in God, work, respect, responsibility,

00055

1 fairness, service, respect for property and for the law.

2 My wife and I spent over 20 years raising our family in

3 Fortuna. We've tried to raise our family with the same

4 ideals, consistency and stability that we were blessed.

5 I have been employed for over 23 years by the

6 Pacific Lumber Company, where I currently am the director

7 of information systems. In my computer-related

8 profession, it is not uncommon for a company to experience

9 large turnover. I've enjoyed a stable atmosphere of a

10 company that's been in business for over a century and

11 wants to continue.

12 Thirteen years ago, when Pacific Lumber was acquired

13 by Maxxam and outsiders predicted doom, I saw our company

14 commit to the long-term. I saw Pacific Lumber expand its

15 ability to make better use of its resources. And, as a

16 result, I chose to stay with our company and our

17 community.

18 I've seen similar commitments with my staff, as

19 well. In today's business environment, where

20 computer-related jobs turn over in one to two years, my

21 staff seniority ranges from eight years to thirty years.

22 I've seen our company's commitment to doing things better.

23 I've seen our forestry department grow from three

24 foresters to over 40 experts, including

25 foresters, technicians, silviculturists, wildlife

00056

1 biologists, fisheries biologists, geologists, engineers

2 and computer specialists.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Slow down a little bit, Richard.

4 MR. ROBBINS: Thank you.

5 I've been involved with our company moving to a

6 state of the art geographical information system that will

7 not only track our existing land and timber resources, but

8 streams, soil, fish and wildlife, and enable our experts

9 to model and plan how we best can maintain our working

10 forest while protecting the environment.

11 I work with systems. A system is a working

12 relationship that can be maintained and perpetuated, not

13 at the expense of its components but in harmony with them.

14 I am here to speak in favor of such a system, and that

15 system is the Headwaters Agreement, specifically, the HCP

16 and the SYP of all of Pacific Lumber's timberlands.

17 This system respects the protection of species and

18 habitat, provides for the sustainable farming of trees,

19 and fosters a predictable and dependable economy. The

20 Headwaters Agreement is the culmination of a cooperative

21 effort between public and private sectors. It has

22 bipartisan support and the involvement of every government

23 agency that is involved with the environment, forestry,

24 fish and wildlife.

25 This agreement has created a partnership between our

00057

1 company and the government. This agreement has a delicate

2 balance. Its balance protects our environment, fosters

3 economic growth, provides for social stability. Without

4 this agreement and its accompanying HCP and Sustained

5 Yield Plan, we will all lose.

6 I ask you to proceed with the work of finalizing the

7 plans before you. We want to protect our environment. We

8 want to protect the rights of private ownership. We want

9 to protect our social and economic well being. We want to

10 be a good and trusted neighbor for a long time to come.

11 Help us save our towns, our county; help us protect and

12 save our farm.

13 Thank you.

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Richard.

15 After Stan, Stan Johnson, will be -- Jean Paulson

16 will be the next speaker after Stan.

17 Stan?

18 MR. JOHNSON: My name is Stan Johnson. I was raised

19 in Humboldt County and have lived and worked here for the

20 past 23 years. I am employed by the Pacific Lumber

21 Company as a computer technician.

22 My brother, sister, brother in law and nephews also

23 work for the Pacific Lumber Company. I represent 21

24 family members who work for or are supported by the

25 Pacific Lumber Company. We are families who spend our

00058

1 money in Humboldt County. We have lived here for most of

2 our lives and would like to continue doing so.

3 People I talk with are excited about the Habitat

4 Conservation Plan and the Sustained Yield Plan. We see it

5 as a way of securing our future and putting an end to the

6 controversy and strife. This is a win-win situation for

7 both sides of the issue. I'm here to voice my concerns

8 for the economic stability and future of Humboldt County.

9 The Pacific Lumber Company is one of the county's

10 industries that uses a natural and renewable resource. It

11 does not look promising for other manufacturing companies

12 to locate in Humboldt. They would need to bring in

13 resources and then ship their products out. From what I

14 have read, it does not look like the government wants to

15 help in upgrading our harbor or keeping a viable railroad

16 in our area.

17 Should the Pacific Lumber Company be unable to

18 continue as an employer, the effect would be devastating

19 to Humboldt County. Most Pacific Lumber Company employees

20 have families and need employment that provides medical

21 insurance and a wage that is adequate for providing the

22 basic needs, such as food, shelter, clothing and

23 education. If not for the Pacific Lumber Company, many

24 employees would have to leave the area to find employment

25 with these benefits.

00059

1 A lot of the service-industry jobs do not meet the

2 needs of families. And if it wasn't for the Pacific

3 Lumber Company, the people who are not employed by them

4 would be in for a rude awakening if they were not here.

5 Without the spending of PALCO dollars in our county, the

6 secondary and surface industries would be severely

7 impacted.

8 I feel that the Habitat Conservation Plan and

9 Sustained Yield Plan are workable in its proposed form.

10 The plan is based on sound science. Changing the plan by

11 asking for 200- or 300-foot buffer zones on streams would

12 put us out of business.

13 The plan would allow the Pacific Lumber Company to

14 provide employment for many generations. It would also

15 benefit the county in many ways, like higher wages and a

16 good tax base. The Pacific Lumber Company not only

17 benefits its employees, but it also donates money and time

18 to many good causes in the county. The Pacific Lumber

19 company is and has been a good neighbor for many years.

20 It is my understanding that economic and other

21 social impacts must be considered. Please realize

22 Humboldt County needs the Pacific Lumber Company.

23 Thank you.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Stan.

25 After Jean, Jim Meskill.

00060

1 Jean, your testimony, please.

2 MS. PAULSON: I'm Jean Paulson.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Yes. You're next.

4 MS. PAULSON: I'm from Eureka.

5 Gentlemen: Imagine, if you will, standing before an

6 assemblage of your great grandchildren and their children.

7 Imagine having to say to them, "We once had a remnant of

8 an irreplaceable ecosystem in our care, one that went back

9 millions of years with giant trees whose crowns captured

10 fog and rain and allowed it to trickle slowly, gently down

11 into a living, breathing mat of vegetation far, far below;

12 whose high branches held summer stars and winter moon in

13 their graceful, moving embrace. Their roots held the

14 soil, made of all that had come before, in place. The

15 forests these giants made sheltered wild and varied life,

16 myriad in form. Through its glades ran clear streams and

17 rivers, silvered with fish.

18 "And we let it go. We let this shimmering and

19 intricate web of life be sawn, blasted, burned, doused

20 with chemicals, its fish blinded and choked by sediment,

21 its animals and their offspring dispersed, dispossessed

22 and killed, the land itself skinned and flayed, for the

23 profit of a company which breaks laws meant to protect

24 these forests, which logs in a manner that is not

25 sustainable.

00061

1 "And we paid them to do this. We paid them with

2 money, with our lost fisheries, with our soon to be lost

3 timber jobs. We paid with a conflict that has torn our

4 community to shreds. We paid with the blood of these

5 animals and these fish, with the crash of these ancient,

6 holy trees. We let them dismantle creation. We should

7 have known better."

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jean.

9 After Jim it'll be Daniel Bartlett.

10 Jim, your testimony, please.

11 MR. MESKILL: My name is Jim Meskill, M-E-S-K-I-L-L.

12 And what I have done is come up with an extremely

13 conservative hypothetical situation I would like to be

14 considered.

15 The average pay, we'll say, is ten dollars an hour

16 for working at PL; and I know that that's extremely

17 conservative, okay? The boss pays a buck or two more, you

18 know. But what does this mean to 1600 men? Well, just to

19 one man it's only just a little over $20,000 a year. But

20 to 1600 men, it's $128,000 a day. It's $2,688,000 a

21 month, $32,256,000 a year, all going into our economy.

22 Without that, there is no economy. That's not counting

23 the help that PL has probably given to men in the 401(k)

24 plan and other benefits.

25 Out of this, these 1600 persons pay about two and a

00062

1 half-percent payroll deductions and seven-and-a-quarter-

2 percent merchandise taxes to the state and the county,

3 which equals $3,144,960. Not counting property taxes, not

4 counting personal property or licenses for cars, boats,

5 motorcycles, et cetera. So that would be all added also.

6 Pacific Lumber taxes is about six million dollars,

7 combined state and county taxes. Now, mind you, we're

8 talking about a ten-dollar-an-hour person, okay? Added

9 together between PL's taxes and this ten-dollar-an-hour

10 person, we come up with $9,144,960 to be divided up

11 between the state and the county.

12 Now, I can't find out how much the county receives,

13 so what I did is I took another estimate. If it's 33

14 percent, it's a little over three million dollars that the

15 county receives; 50 percent is four-and-a-half million

16 dollars; and 66 percent will be a little over six million

17 dollars.

18 We would hope that you would consider accepting the

19 plans that have been put forth as is. Can the county

20 afford to take this kind of a loss if these jobs go down?

21 I can't.

22 The one other thing I'd like to say: Some of these

23 taxes went to the schools to prepare men for the

24 Department of Fisheries and for the Fish and Wildlife

25 Department and for our Forestry Department. If we cannot

00063

1 depend on what kind of a plan these people came up with

2 together, then why are we paying taxes to send these

3 people to school? These people should know. They are

4 trained by the best teachers we have.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jim.

7 Bob Thomas. Bob Thomas will be speaking after

8 Daniel.

9 Daniel, your testimony please.

10 MR. BARTLETT: Thank you. My name is Daniel

11 Bartlett, B-A-R-T-L-E-T-T. I'm a native of Humboldt

12 County, I've worked 27 years at Pacific Lumber Company,

13 and I'm a fourth-generation employee there.

14 I just wanted to point out some facts that I know

15 about on a very narrow basis where the company has helped

16 the county and the community in overall respects. I've

17 lived in a rural community of Shively. Not too many

18 people probably heard of this little town. It's up in the

19 Eel River -- and I've lived there for the last 44 years.

20 As an outdoorsman, I have been known to live close

21 to the land. I'm very concerned personally about

22 environmental issues, and I believe we have to strike a

23 balance between our future of our land, water and wildlife

24 resources with our human needs and population growth. I

25 feel the Headwaters Agreement meets these goals.

00064

1 To get to Shively in the wintertime, you have to

2 drive ten miles of mountainous road through second-growth

3 redwoods. I might add that this right of way to this road

4 was donated to the county in the 1950's. And as far as

5 mudslides, in the 50's and 60's I lost more time going to

6 school in four years than I have in the last 27 years due

7 to slides working for the company.

8 Oh, by the way. I'm not getting paid to be here,

9 and I don't think anybody else is.

10 A few of subspecies of our human race use our

11 Shively Road as a personal dumping ground, a real eyesore

12 at times. Who's the one that cleans this up? Pacific

13 Lumber Company does. They don't have to. It's a county

14 road. They clean it up every once in a while.

15 The last 45 years, in late spring we have a summer

16 bridge we put in, shortens the travel to the highway,

17 quickens fire protection, and is a viable outlet for

18 produce and hay. Pacific Lumber's always helped the town

19 of Shively with resources and equipment to put this bridge

20 in.

21 And I've got several others, but I'll cut it short.

22 These are just a few examples of what I personally

23 know of that PL does. It doesn't make the news, no big

24 deal for just helping people out, not necessarily

25 employees of Pacific Lumber Company but people in general

00065

1 in the county; and I fear that a lot of this -- these

2 unheard of programs such as these, and -- that benefits

3 society as a whole will be lost if we don't pass this

4 Headwaters Agreement.

5 Thank you for your attention.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Daniel.

7 After Bob will be Carl Wickman.

8 Okay. Bob, your testimony, please.

9 MR. THOMAS: Thank you very much. I appreciate the

10 opportunity to speak before you today. My name is Bob

11 Thomas. I'm president of Joe Costa Trucking, a regional

12 trucking company that's domiciled in Arcata, California.

13 I provide employment for approximately 150 North Coast

14 families and have an annual payroll in excess of five

15 million dollars a year. Forty percent of this payroll is

16 generated as a direct result of hauling for the Pacific

17 Lumber Company.

18 In addition, approximately $800,000 per year is

19 generated in highway and fuel taxes as a result of this

20 hauling. These taxes are necessary to repair our streets

21 and highways in order to keep them open and to ensure the

22 continuous flow of goods and services to the North Coast.

23 Often taken for granted are the charitable causes

24 and youth activities vital to the families in our region,

25 many of which depend upon the forest-products industry.

00066

1 Without the revenue derived by hauling for the Pacific

2 Lumber Company, we as a company would not be able to

3 sponsor the half-dozen youth athletic teams that we

4 currently sponsor, keeping these kids off the streets, or

5 provide the contributory funding for FFA and 4-H as well

6 as numerous other worthy organizations, organizations that

7 depend upon Joe Costa Trucking and the Pacific Lumber

8 Company for the funding to keep them operational.

9 Recent curtailments in Pacific Lumber Company

10 operations due to log shortages are a direct result of

11 prolonged negotiations in finalizing a Headwaters

12 Agreement, and in illegal activist activities -- and in

13 illegal activist activities have resulted in a reduction

14 of our work force and have increased unemployment for our

15 fragile economy.

16 Make no mistake that these activists have one goal,

17 and that is to stop all PL timber harvesting, as evidenced

18 by the following ad in the want-ad section of the November

19 7th San Francisco Chronicle, and I quote -- and in

20 response to those who are actually being paid to be here,

21 I'll read you this ad. "Don't get mad, get organized.

22 Forests Forever is hiring and training grassroots

23 organizers to join our staff of activists working to save

24 all 60,000 acres of the Headwaters Forest. Twenty-one

25 thousand dollars a year, paid vacation, sick days,

00067

1 holidays. Ten dollars an hour to work on the phones.

2 Now, you tell me who's being really paid to be here.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Bob, I need your conclusion.

4 MR. THOMAS: I'm not a scientist, I'm a businessman,

5 but I'm convinced after my cursory review of the

6 scientific scrutiny this plan has received that a sound,

7 conservative -- and our last chance to save Headwaters.

8 With a bipartisan blessing this agreement has received

9 from the White House to the state capitol as well as both

10 legislative branches of the state and federal government,

11 it's obvious to me that we need to close this chapter.

12 I urge you to approve the plans that are before you

13 so that the thousands of North Coast families who depend

14 upon the Pacific Lumber Company for a living can get out

15 of limbo and get on with their jobs.

16 Thank you.

17 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bob.

18 Donald Kegley will be after Carl.

19 Carl, your testimony.

20 MR. WICKMAN: My name is Carl Wickman,

21 W-I-C-K-M-A-N.

22 I am a rank-and-file member of Steelworkers Local

23 329 in Spokane, Washington. I am a Maxxam/Kaiser employee

24 there. I have been off now for about a month and a half

25 because we're in a labor dispute.

00068

1 People ask what business I have here today. In

2 Spokane, as I speak now, there are Maxxam/PL employees

3 crossing my picket line replacing me and my coworkers.

4 This is undermining our efforts to bring Maxxam/Kaiser to

5 the bargaining table and negotiate a fair contract for us,

6 our families and our community. We have many people in

7 our community that depend on these jobs, as well. I know

8 I'm an outsider here, but I have outsiders in my community

9 now impacting me directly every day.

10 This is being done in the name of the relentless

11 pursuit of higher profits. Considering the fact that the

12 man behind this is responsible for a billion-and-a-half-

13 dollar taxpayer S and L bailout, I see no good reason why

14 he should receive another windfall at taxpayer expense.

15 I know it will be put to use to displace people, not

16 to secure long-term economic stability for us and our

17 community.

18 Thank you very much.

19 PRESIDING OFFICER: Before Donald speaks, John

20 Frink.

21 John, you'll be after Donald.

22 Donald, your testimony, please.

23 MR. KEGLEY: My name is Donald Kegley, K-E-G-L-E-Y.

24 Like Carl, I'm from Spokane, Washington. I

25 represent 3,000 striking steelworkers across this nation.

00069

1 We are all governed under one contract and owned by

2 Maxxam/Kaiser Aluminum.

3 We have a lot of things in common with these people

4 here. I've listened to Pacific Lumber people talk up

5 here. I want you people to know something. Our company's

6 just like your company. At one time we had a stellar

7 corporate view. The people in this state of California

8 considered Kaiser, the name, to be one of the best

9 corporate citizens around.

10 I have also heard that for over 100 years, Pacific

11 Lumber had that same regard. They did a fine job. They

12 continued the company and built an empire. They did a

13 great job to their communities.

14 But a few years ago, folks, we were taken over by

15 the same man. In an illegal bailout of a failed savings

16 and loan in Texas, Charles Hurwitz was able to take over

17 Pacific Lumber and only a few years later take over Kaiser

18 Aluminum. Since then, the outcome has not been the same.

19 I hear about people talking about their livelihood

20 in this community. Let me tell you, when Charles Hurwitz

21 decides that this is no longer a profitable place, not

22 only will the trees be endangered but, ladies and

23 gentlemen, your jobs and your livelihood will be

24 endangered.

25 I'd like to say very briefly and quickly that I've

00070

1 brought with me documentation that Charles Hurwitz and

2 Maxxam, Inc., has violated Washington state laws, numerous

3 laws, environmental laws. This is not a man or a company

4 that can be trusted to carry out a 50-year plan, much less

5 a one-year plan.

6 Thank you very much.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jay, Jay Parrish, will be the

8 next speaker after John Frink.

9 John, your testimony please.

10 MR. FRINK: My name John Frink, F-R-I-N-K. I am

11 employed by Redwood Kenworth Company in Eureka,

12 California. I'm the Kenworth truck salesman for Humboldt

13 and Del Norte and northern Mendocino counties. We sell

14 trucks and provide parts and service for the trucks we

15 sell.

16 It is my understanding that the Habitat Conservation

17 Plan specifically provides for commercial operations

18 and/or development so long as species and fish and habitat

19 are protected. It is also my understanding that by

20 agreeing to a Sustained Yield Plan, a company commits that

21 it won't cut more than it grows.

22 I am here as a vendor to the Pacific Lumber Company

23 and other forest-products companies. I in turn have

24 customers. The fact is while I fully support protecting

25 species and habitat, I need dependable sources of truck

00071

1 sales in order to survive. My parts-and-service

2 departments in turn need me to sell trucks so that these

3 sales will generate parts-and-service sales for them. We

4 need each other in order to survive. You destroy a part

5 of it, you destroy a part or, in some cases, all of

6 another part.

7 Redwood Kenworth Company, though a very tiny piece

8 of the puzzle, generated federal excise tax in the amount

9 of $295,800; California sales tax in the amount of

10 $178,712; DMV fees, $75,400.

11 I believe that if the Headwaters Agreement is now

12 resolved forthcoming, then all the small businesses, truck

13 dealerships, part outlets, equipment suppliers, car

14 dealers, so on, so on, will be impacted by this severely.

15 Just think of the lost tax revenue alone, will be

16 devastating.

17 I support the Pacific Lumber Company's endeavor in

18 fairly trying to please all in trying to resolve this

19 situation.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

22 Jay Parrish?

23 While Jay's coming to speak, the next speaker, then,

24 will be Sara Buccola.

25 Okay. Jay, your testimony, please.

00072

1 MR. PARRISH: My name is Jay Parrish, P-A-R-R-I-S-H.

2 I'm a Rio Dell city councilman and a 17-year employee of

3 the Pacific Lumber Company.

4 I am here to voice my support of the Habitat

5 Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan. These plans

6 are reasonable. They protect the environment and give

7 economic predictability to Pacific Lumber Company, its

8 employees and the communities they support.

9 Please finalize these plans, realize the economic

10 stability it will give our community.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jay.

12 Before Sara speaks, Doc Gallup will be the next

13 speaker, then.

14 Sara?

15 MS. BUCCOLA: Okay. Picture, if you would, a small

16 community town overflowing with a friendly, family-

17 oriented atmosphere, a town which, if it were not for a

18 certain company, would not even exist. In fact, families

19 that live in this beautiful town do so in houses that are

20 provided by this company. Children are educated in the

21 local school, which is also provided by this company.

22 Residents feel safe in the neighborhood of the town, which

23 is owned and maintained by this company. I certainly can

24 picture a town like this one, because I grew up there.

25 My name is Sara Buccola. I am a wife and a mother

00073

1 and an employee of Pacific Lumber Company in Scotia. I am

2 proud to be working for a company that always has and

3 still does provide so very much economic and social growth

4 to our area.

5 My father, who has worked for Pacific Lumber Company

6 for 37 years, raised me in the community town of Scotia.

7 Myself, along with friends and family, lived in a company

8 home, attended grammar school at a company building, and

9 spent our days playing in a safe and happy neighborhood.

10 I only hope that I will be fortunate enough to raise

11 my own daughters here as well. They too can grow up

12 knowing that they are an important part of a strong

13 growing community. Or will they? One might wonder

14 whether or not a town whose livelihood is dependent on the

15 survival of the Pacific Lumber Company will remain.

16 In order to ensure the life of not just a company

17 and a community but of an entire county in which the

18 Pacific Lumber Company is the largest private employer,

19 the proposed Habitat Conservation Plan and the Sustained

20 Yield Plans must be accepted.

21 I believe that the experts designed these plans to

22 be sound and conservative. I also believe that another

23 chance to preserve ancient forest and wildlife while at

24 the same time protecting jobs and rights will not be easy

25 to come by again. My family and my future depend on that.

00074

1 Thank you very much.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Sara.

3 After Doc will be Melissa Marks.

4 MR. GALLUP: My name is Doc Gallup, G-A-L-L-U-P. I

5 have a bachelor of arts degree and I've been working in

6 the power plant in Scotia for about 12 years.

7 I agree with the conservation plan. It's an

8 excellent example of two schools of thought compromising

9 and meeting in the middle. Conflicting interests in

10 today's society are rarely negotiated in such a balanced

11 manner.

12 Speaking from the area of my expertise, which is

13 electrical-power generation, the Pacific Lumber Company

14 contributes a significant volume of electricity to the

15 public of Humboldt County. The source of our power comes

16 from the parts of the tree that the sawmill cannot use,

17 such as bark, trimming, knots and branches. This material

18 also goes to our environmental state-of-the-art power

19 plant, which makes electricity to run our own operations

20 and to serve the public with.

21 There was once a time when this county's electrical-

22 distribution system was disrupted due to a storm. During

23 this time the Pacific Lumber Company was a sole provider

24 for a portion of the county's electrical needs.

25 Even ash that is produced by Pacific Lumber's power

00075

1 plant is used by the public in several ways. One, the

2 agricultural industry in Humboldt County uses our ash for

3 soil enhancement. They use it to maintain pH levels in

4 the soil, thereby reducing the need for chemicals out in

5 the fields.

6 Second, the carbon ash is used for making barbecue

7 briquettes. This community needs this approval to

8 maintain the renewable source of electricity that the

9 Pacific Lumber Company provides for the public.

10 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Doc.

11 After Melissa Marks --

12 Melissa, are you here? I'm going to have to go on

13 if you're not here.

14 Okay. Tim Marks. Tim, are you here?

15 As Tim's coming, the next speaker then will be Dick

16 Lindsay.

17 MR. MARKS: Good morning. My name's Tim Marks,

18 M-A-R-K-S, native of this county and third-generation

19 Pacific Lumber Company employee.

20 Pacific Lumber Company has been good to my family

21 and myself over the years. PALCO's scholarships have

22 helped put my children through college. They also provide

23 excellent benefits for my family.

24 I'd like to encourage the agencies concerned to

25 approve PALCO's Habitat Conservation Plan. Many good

00076

1 people have worked hard on this plan. It may not be

2 perfect, and there doesn't appear to be an alternative

3 plan that is as extensive as PALCO's, so let's give it a

4 chance.

5 It's interesting to note that apparently PALCO has

6 the only land in the county that fosters fish and wildlife

7 habitat. My job and the well being of my family is

8 directly dependent on the approval of PALCO's Habitat

9 Conservation Plan.

10 Thank you.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Tim.

12 After Dick it will be Michael Dunkelberger.

13 Dick, your testimony, please.

14 MR. LINDSAY: Good morning. My name is Dick

15 Lindsay, L-I-N-D-S-A-Y. I've lived in Ferndale for the

16 past 22 years. I've been involved with the building --

17 construction industry since 1957, first in Minnesota,

18 where I grew up; then I went to Hawaii; and now I've lived

19 here for 22 years.

20 During these years I have either managed or owned

21 equipment dealerships that promote equipment and services

22 to grow and harvest agricultural products. Trees are

23 agriculture, as is corn or sugar cane. Trees just take a

24 little longer to bear the fruit. I also own a cafe and an

25 antique mall.

00077

1 The Habitat Conservation Plan, Sustained Yield Plan

2 and the Headwaters Agreement have been developed by sound

3 scientific minds. It's been reviewed, it's been

4 revisited, it's been renewed, it's been rewritten, and

5 it's been challenged by many of the best minds on all

6 sides of the issue.

7 We can continue this process or we can move on. I

8 believe enough studying, enough digesting is enough, and

9 we should get on with the program of approving the plan.

10 We, the people of this area, have put up with enough

11 advice from experts from outside the community. We all

12 know the old saying an expert is someone more than 500

13 miles from home, or whatever miles you want to put in

14 that. Too bad all those experts that are trying to help

15 solve our problems don't take a look at their own back

16 yards and start solving their own opportunities. Leave us

17 alone. We can take care of our own selves, within the

18 local area.

19 As a vendor to the industry, a business owner who

20 depends on a local economy and supports the local economy,

21 I ask that you approve the plan and agreement as

22 presented. Let's get on with our lives.

23 Thank you.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dick.

25 While Michael is coming, Bob Griswold will be the

00078

1 next speaker then.

2 Michael, your testimony, please.

3 MR. DUNKELBERGER: Yes. My name is Michael

4 Dunkelberger. That's D-U-N-K-E-L-B-E-R-G-E-R. And I am

5 proud to say I've been employed by the Pacific Lumber

6 Company for going on 18 years.

7 Now, at home, I think some of you already know that

8 I have a rather unusual hobby of the keeping of reptiles

9 and amphibians and the study of such. I have photographed

10 a number of the species that are highlighted in this HCP

11 for protection. And I can tell you that judging from what

12 I have seen out in the field, photographing some of these

13 animals, that I think the buffer zones that are given are

14 quite adequate. And it is my firm belief that as it is,

15 I'd like to see you people approve these plans as they are

16 written.

17 Thank you.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Michael.

19 Bob Griswold?

20 Okay. Robert McCutchen?

21 Robert, you will be the next speaker, then.

22 After Robert it will be Dan Ihara.

23 MR. MCCUTCHEN: My name is Robert McCutchen,

24 M-C-C-U-T-C-H-E-N. I have lived in Humboldt County for

25 over 45 years. I've worked for Pacific Lumber Company for

00079

1 over 30 years. And I'm speaking today to voice my

2 concerns and support for the HCP/SYP plans.

3 The Headwaters Agreement combines the acquisition of

4 ancient forests with the protection of fish and wildlife

5 and the preservation of jobs. The 7500 acres of

6 Headwaters grove, plus an additional 8500 acres of redwood

7 forest, is set up to protect the breeding habitat of the

8 marbled murrelet. These reserves include all of the most

9 biologically valuable old-growth-forest stands on PALCO's

10 property.

11 The HCP provides for 170-foot buffers on Class I and

12 100-foot buffers on Class II streams which, quote, "If you

13 were to put all of those together, they would be as wide

14 as a football field that would be stretched from Scotia to

15 the southern tip of Baha," unquote.

16 This amount of land and the surrounding buffers

17 provide habitat for both endangered and nonendangered

18 species. It also adds to the 90,000-plus acres of

19 old-growth redwood forests that are available to the

20 public today.

21 The SYP is a widespread ecological forest-management

22 plan that spans 120 years. It means that PL must

23 demonstrate to the regulators' satisfaction that its

24 operations will not cut more trees than it can grow.

25 Furthermore, PALCO must prove that the HCP works,

00080

1 that the fish and wildlife are being protected, and

2 the habitat conditions are improving. If not, then PALCO

3 and the experts must get together and determine what

4 modifications can be made.

5 While the purpose for this plan is for habitat and

6 species protection and sustainable forestry, the economic

7 strength of a region is at stake; and it must be

8 considered.

9 I'm not a doctor of science, I'm not an expert

10 biologist, but I am a worker, and I have lived around

11 these forests and streams almost all of my life, and I am

12 convinced because of the huge involvement of those who are

13 scientists, that this is a sound and conservative plan.

14 It's a workable solution to an ongoing controversy. We

15 need it, our community needs it.

16 And I would like to assure you that these guys here

17 from PL are not being paid today. They're here because

18 they finally have gotten the opportunity to come on a

19 workday to express their views and concerns and let you

20 guys know that they are very concerned about this plan.

21 So please realize the economic and social impact on

22 our lives that this plan carries.

23 Thanks.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Robert.

25 Before Dan speaks, Paulette Kallo?

00081

1 You'll be next.

2 MR. IHARA: Hi. I'm Dan Ihara, I-H-A-R-A. I have

3 been a consultant for the County of Humboldt to study the

4 impact of the Headwaters Acquisition on the local economy.

5 I am here speaking for myself, as a volunteer, as a

6 citizen, and I'd like to share the following information.

7 The economic impact analysis of the HCP is

8 fundamentally flawed. It uses the average harvest of the

9 last ten years as the base year. These were years of

10 overharvesting and should not be used as the only

11 benchmark to evaluate the economic impact of the proposed

12 project and its alternatives.

13 A better, perhaps the best, alternative to use for a

14 base year is Alternative 1, the no-project alternative.

15 This alternative gives the harvest levels that can be

16 sustained under existing laws. The sustained level of

17 harvesting under existing laws is 171 million board feet

18 and 1,147 PALCO jobs. The HCP proposes 1,565 PALCO jobs,

19 or 418 more than can be sustained under existing laws.

20 These are a lot of jobs. Four hundred jobs is

21 approximately 12 million dollars in payroll. For ten

22 years, or over ten years, this means 120 million jobs. If

23 the no-project Alternative Number 1 were followed, the

24 government would not spend $480 million to buy Maxxam

25 land. Even if the PALCO workers affected under

00082

1 Alternative 1 were fully compensated for ten years, the

2 government would save $360 million.

3 There was one thing with which Charles Hurwitz and I

4 agree. The HCP is necessary to pay off Maxxam's bond-

5 holders. Maxxam gambled that it could sell junk bonds to

6 finance its takeover of Pacific Lumber. Maxxam has

7 painted itself into a corner by overharvesting the last

8 ten years. Maxxam needs the change in the law to pay off

9 its bondholders. There is no need, though, that taxpayers

10 should be required to bail out Maxxam and its bond-

11 holders for its speculative gambles.

12 I'll summarize here. For reasons itemized in my

13 written comments, the draft environmental impact analysis

14 of the HCP is fundamentally flawed and should be

15 disapproved. All taxpayers should not be required to bail

16 out Maxxam's bondholders. All affected Pacific Lumber

17 Company workers should be fully compensated.

18 I'd just like to add to that the plan calls for

19 harvesting more than is growing over the next two decades.

20 This is right in black and white in the document.

21 Thank you.

22 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dan.

23 After Paulette it will be Timothy Petrusha.

24 Paulette?

25 MS. KALLO: My name is Paulette Kallo, K-A-L-L-O,

00083

1 and I'm a newcomer to this area. I've only lived here for

2 about 18 months. I bought a house, a hundred-year-old,

3 solid-growth redwood house out on the Elk River, so I'm

4 right in the middle of this mess.

5 What I -- my heart goes out to the PL employees

6 because they're obviously good people that are worried

7 about their jobs, and maybe there should be an economist

8 on this panel up here to address their problems because

9 there will be problems if they don't have work.

10 I can see some serious flaws in this plan. The

11 rivers are flooding. They're filling up with silt. The

12 salmon are dying. They're cutting too many trees. The

13 company is cutting 100 percent more trees than the

14 previous company did; and the plan is to continue this,

15 correct? So most of my statements are going to be in the

16 form of questions.

17 Why are they being permitted to cut double the

18 amount of trees as the previous company? And it's

19 obviously having a bad effect on nature, because, I mean,

20 even an eight year old can figure that out. I mean,

21 there's -- there's some problems out there that we're not

22 addressing. And this plan is not addressing them, either.

23 I mean, endangered species? I'm going to be an endangered

24 species because my house is only about 300 yards from that

25 river that floods every year. It's never flooded in a

00084

1 hundred years, but every year in the past ten years it's

2 gotten worse.

3 So I don't know. The endangered species, the

4 people's jobs. I'm not sure what the answers are, but

5 this plan doesn't -- the no-surprises clause in this plan

6 is not a really good idea, because, I mean, how do we know

7 what's going to happen, because ultimately we're all going

8 to be affected when our water sources are being affected.

9 I mean, I'm a cancer patient that has come here to

10 retire, and I want this place for my children and my

11 grandchildren because I love it. It's obviously God's

12 country, and I pray that today God will inspire you people

13 on this panel to do the right thing.

14 Thank you.

15 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Paulette.

16 Charles Moyer? Charles, you'll be after Timothy.

17 Timothy, your testimony, please.

18 MR. PETRUSHA: Good morning. My name is Tim

19 Petrusha, P-E-T-R-U-S-H-A. I am not a forester, I am not

20 a PALCO employee. I am an employer in Humboldt County. I

21 own Advanced Security Systems. My family has been in

22 business in Humboldt County for over 20 years.

23 My business supports over 25 people and their

24 families in Humboldt County. They rely on me. My company

25 relies on the timber industry. Without companies like PL,

00085

1 I would have no business. Therefore, I am here to speak

2 in favor of the Headwaters Agreement and the HCP that has

3 been proposed for all the Pacific Lumber Company's

4 timberlands. Humboldt County depends on your decision.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Tim.

7 After Charles speaks it'll be Paul Cienfuegos.

8 Charles?

9 MR. MOYER: Charles Moyer, M-O-Y-E-R.

10 My life and livelihood has been in the forest

11 industry from logging to sawmill and lumber to

12 management. I believe my expertise is well enough to

13 speak on this subject.

14 I've been a resident of Mendocino and Humboldt

15 County all my life. I believe that we should adopt this

16 HCP and this SYP for Pacific Lumber. Pacific Lumber has

17 been made out to be the bad guy for everything that's

18 happened from San Francisco to the Canadian border, and

19 it's not possible that they could do all of this. So I

20 believe that we should adopt these plans.

21 As far as our guests from Spokane, I believe if the

22 man-hour production was as great as the wood-industry

23 people at Pacific Lumber Company, you people would not be

24 on strike.

25 Thank you.

00086

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Charles.

2 After Paul, we'll have John Prevost.

3 Okay, Paul. We'll take your testimony now.

4 MR. CIENFUEGOS: My name is Paul Cienfuegos,

5 C-I-E N, F as in Frank, U-E-G-O-S. I'm the director of

6 Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County.

7 I'd like to start with two historic quotes.

8 Thomas Jefferson in 1816 said:

9 "I hope that we can crush in its birth the

10 aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare

11 already to challenge our government to a trial of

12 strength and bid defiance to the laws of our

13 country."

14 President Abe Lincoln said in 1861:

15 "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that

16 unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety

17 of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an

18 era of corruption in high places will follow, and

19 the dollar power of the country will endeavor to

20 prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of

21 the people until the wealth is abrogated in a few

22 hands and the republic is destroyed."

23 The whole history of our great nation is one of

24 citizens attempting to keep corporations subordinate to

25 we, the people. To a large degree, the American

00087

1 Revolution was about throwing off the yoke of British

2 corporations.

3 Prior to this century, corporations were prohibited

4 from owning other corporations. Corporate directors and

5 stockholders were held personally liable for all harms

6 caused by the corporation. Corporations were prohibited

7 from influencing elections: no campaign money, no

8 lobbying, no political advertising. When corporations

9 caused major harm, they frequently had their charters

10 revoked and they were dissolved.

11 Obviously the situation is very different today. In

12 1886 corporations convinced judges that they should be

13 guaranteed the same Constitutional rights as we, the

14 people, have. So now corporations have free speech rights

15 and property rights just like you and I. These rights are

16 fundamentally illegitimate in our democratic society.

17 How does this impact us in Humboldt County? It

18 means that Maxxam Corporation has more rights than the

19 actual residents of the county, more rights than the

20 landowners downstream of its operations, more rights than

21 the employees.

22 Can our democracy survive this outrage? I think

23 not. Today I stand here speaking to representatives of

24 regulatory agencies. Do you gentlemen realize that the

25 entire regulatory law system was established at the urging

00088

1 of large corporations at the turn of the century? They

2 were attempting to break free of very strict laws that

3 prohibited corporations from causing significant harm.

4 Today these harms are mostly legal. Destruction of

5 salmon streams is legal harm. Massive corporate layoffs

6 and disruption of communities is legal harm.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Paul, I need your conclusion.

8 MR. CIENFUEGOS: The Headwaters deal is

9 fundamentally illegitimate in our democratic society. The

10 habitat devastation plan must be stopped.

11 Thank you.

12 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Paul.

13 After John's testimony, it will be Frances Ferguson.

14 John?

15 MR. PREVOST: Thank you.

16 My name is John Prevost, I'm a former member of the

17 Fortuna city council and a two-time -- two-term member of

18 the Fortuna planning commission. I'm a member -- I'm an

19 employee of the Pacific Lumber Company. My wife, who

20 couldn't be here today, is a school teacher in the city of

21 Fortuna.

22 The purpose of the Headwaters Agreement, as you've

23 heard, was to combine the acquisition of forests that the

24 general public wished to protect along with the combined

25 protection of the economy of our county and the protection

00089

1 of fish and wildlife. For these reasons PL has prepared

2 the Sustained Yield Plan and the Habitat Conservation

3 Plan.

4 It is my understanding that the Sustained Yield Plan

5 proposed in accordance with the California Forest

6 Protective Act, Forest Practices Act, must guarantee that

7 logging will not exceed growth over the next one hundred

8 years. This plan focuses on not only the indicator

9 species but a large number of others, as well.

10 The HCP prepared in accordance with the Endangered

11 Species Act allows the taking of some endangered or

12 threatened species as long as this taking is mitigated by

13 other measures, which the plans call out. The intention

14 of the ESA in the proposal -- the proposed plans, allow

15 the protection of the resources necessary to keep our

16 company in operation and our employees at work.

17 The majority of the land owned by PALCO is owned for

18 timber harvests, and with the approval of the plans that

19 have been proposed, this land can be used to its potential

20 while at the same time protecting our natural resources

21 and wildlife. The plans are based on sound research, and

22 I urge you to move forward with their approval, based on

23 scientific logic and reasoning, not on hearsay, rhetoric

24 and conjecture. The communities that we live in and

25 support deserve your immediate action.

00090

1 And I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to

2 speak to you.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

4 Frances, just a minute.

5 Okay. After Frances, it will be Mark Cobb.

6 Frances, I need you to hold for just a second.

7 Okay, Frances. Thank you.

8 MS. FERGUSON: My name is Frances Ferguson,

9 F-R-A-N-C-E-S F-E-R-G-U-S-O-N. I have lived on the

10 California North Coast for 30 years. Thank you for this

11 opportunity to speak.

12 I must first express my outrage at the Headwaters

13 Forest deal; my gratitude to the Earth Firsters who have

14 risked their lived to protect the ancient Headwaters

15 groves; and my profound respect for David Gypsy Chain, who

16 gave his life in the defense of endangered marbled

17 murrelets. I also -- I also register my dismay at your

18 inadequate Habitat Conservation Plan and its accompanying

19 Sustained Yield Plan.

20 I ask, why should Pacific Lumber Company be granted

21 50 years of incidental killings of over 30 rare fish and

22 wildlife species? Why should this plan be set in concrete

23 for half a century despite rapidly changing scientific

24 information? Why is there no provision for the 300-foot

25 riparian buffers, which respected fisheries biologists say

00091

1 are necessary to prevent the extinction of salmon? Why

2 should Pacific Lumber Company, which has been convicted of

3 numerous violations of California Forestry law, be trusted

4 to live up to its agreements under the HCP and the

5 Sustained Yield Plan? Why should Pacific Lumber Company

6 be allowed to continue logging steep slopes whose

7 subsequent collapse will silt up our rivers and damage the

8 property of neighbors downstream?

9 I realize that you are under enormous political

10 pressure to produce an HCP and SYP acceptable to the

11 Clinton Administration, the California legislature and

12 Charles Hurwitz. I'm asking you for courage and

13 professional integrity, not pseudoscience. To be blunt,

14 our children's biological inheritance is more important

15 than the job security of government agency officials or

16 Maxxam's corporate profits.

17 Instead of managed extinction, we need enforcement

18 of the Endangered Species Act. Please allow my

19 grandchildren to grow up with salmon.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Frances.

22 I need -- Bradley Burns will come up after Mark.

23 Mark, your testimony, please.

24 MR. COBB: Good morning. My name is Mark Cobb. I

25 am a 12-year employee of the Pacific Lumber Company. I'm

00092

1 a family man with three boys, a lovely wife, and I am also

2 a small business owner in my community.

3 I'm here to support Pacific Lumber Company and

4 Pacific Lumber Company's Habitat Conservation Plan and

5 their Sustained Yield plan. I believe that Pacific Lumber

6 Company has put together a comprehensive plan that

7 addresses the economical needs of our community in this

8 area but also a plan that addresses all of the

9 environmental and social concerns of our area.

10 These plans are based solely on science and not on

11 emotions. We've heard many emotional outbursts today, and

12 that's not what this plan is about. This plan has been

13 put together through scientific fact.

14 I believe that these two plans should be embraced by

15 our local, state and federal governments, and I believe

16 that these plans should be embraced by the

17 environmentalists that live and love this land that we

18 work in.

19 I've lived here all my life. This is my home. My

20 dad worked for Pacific Lumber Company. My in-laws work

21 for Pacific Lumber Company. My grandfather has ties to

22 the timber industry. I don't know anything else. And

23 Pacific Lumber Company is a company that has provided me

24 and many others with the high-paying jobs that make dreams

25 come true. My dream as a simple working man is to live in

00093

1 this community, is to raise my children in a safe

2 environment, and is to grow my own business to be

3 successful. Pacific Lumber Company's made those dreams a

4 possibility.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Mark, I need your conclusion.

6 MR. COBB: My conclusion is that the HCP and the

7 Sustained Yield Plans are vital to my livelihood, to my

8 family and to my business; and I believe with these two

9 plans in place that Pacific Lumber Company is a model

10 company for environmental protection; and a failure to

11 accept these -- PL's HCP and SYP plans will mean economic

12 and social devastation to me and my family and our home.

13 Thank you.

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Mark.

15 Bradley?

16 MR. BURNS: My name is Bradley Burns. I'm a

17 resident of Humboldt County and the owner of a small-

18 crafts manufacturing business employing four people.

19 I respectfully request from the agencies present

20 that Maxxam, Pacific Lumber Company's draft Habitat

21 Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan be rejected on

22 the basis of the following points.

23 The operations of Pacific Lumber Company have racked

24 up over 300 violations in recent years, indicating the

25 lack of respect for society's laws. Even Maxxam's owner,

00094

1 Mr. Charles Hurwitz, had the arrogance to stand up in his

2 first company employee meeting and declare that those who

3 have the gold rule. If these plans are accepted,

4 historically bad precedents will be set. Shoddy data and

5 conclusions should not be a model for future HCP's in this

6 industry.

7 A take permit should be denied on the basis of

8 regulations which renders anyone convicted of related

9 crimes ineligible for an incidental take permit.

10 Maxxam/PL's claim that their scientific data is the best

11 available is pathetically bogus. They may have started

12 out with credible scientists, but the conclusions and data

13 presented in these plans are distorted, full of omissions

14 and outdated. PL's corporate economic goals are simply

15 incompatible with scientific and biological facts. The

16 plans ignore the biological facts that coho salmon need

17 sediment-free, 16.5-degree-centigrade water to thrive in.

18 The lack of discussion in the plans of voluntary

19 harvest restraint when sediment and temperature thresholds

20 are exceeded, and the resting of watersheds to allow

21 salmon recovery, further supports the conclusion that PL

22 cannot be trusted with the responsibilities of an

23 incidental take permit.

24 The risk of failure and habitat damage system --

25 habitat damage system-wide is unacceptably high on 2,000

00095

1 miles of the operational roads. The decommissioning of 50

2 miles of roads per year are inadequate.

3 It is scientifically or technically impossible to

4 mitigate the destruction of a species or a naturally

5 thriving forest ecosystem. Two hundred distinct runs of

6 northwest salmonids have already been lost, with billions

7 of dollars in economic damage and jobs lost.

8 Maxxam proves that crime pays. If I, a singular

9 citizen, were to steal your prized possessions and later

10 be caught, I would end up incarcerated, stripped of my

11 rights as a citizen, and would of course forfeit my

12 ill-gotten gains. Why should Maxxam be different? Why

13 should they be able to break laws, damage publicly owned

14 fisheries, wildlife, water quality and neighboring

15 property while being allowed to keep millions of dollars

16 in profits from illegally cut timber after paying

17 minuscule fines?

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Bradley, I need your conclusion.

19 Thank you.

20 MR. BURNS: Maxxam's economic efficiency -- for

21 Maxxam -- demands the fastest liquidation of the

22 old-growth and residual timber. Tragically, the fuel for

23 this rapacious engine are the timber workers whose jobs

24 will later be sacrificed on the altar of bottom line so

25 that one man can amass great wealth.

00096

1 I think you know in your heart that Pacific Lumber's

2 submitted plans are not biologically or economically

3 sustainable to this region. It is your duty to deny them.

4 Thank you.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bradley.

6 It's now eleven a.m., and this concludes our morning

7 session, so I'll now go off the record.

8 On behalf of the federal and state agencies, we

9 appreciate the time and the effort you took this morning

10 to give your comments. They were informative, and they

11 will be helpful.

12 The afternoon session will begin at one o'clock.

13 Noon will be beginning of the registration.

14 Thank you.

15 [Morning session concluded.]

16 [Go to next page.]

17 / / /

00097

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Good afternoon. Welcome to this

2 public hearing.

3 The United States Fish and Wildlife Service,

4 National Marine Fisheries Service, the California State

5 Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, and the

6 California Department of Fish and Game are conducting a

7 joint process for taking comments on Environmental Impact

8 Statement/Environmental Impact Report for the Headwaters

9 Forest Acquisition and the Pacific Lumber Company's

10 Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan.

11 My name is Richard DeClerck, and I'm an attorney

12 from the United States Department of the Interior, Office

13 of the Solicitor. I will be serving as presiding official

14 for this hearing.

15 With me here on the podium today are the following

16 agency representatives: Phil Detrich, the HCP team

17 leader, United States Fish and Wildlife Service; Dean

18 Ludtke, California Department of Forestry and Fire

19 Protection; and Bill Hogarth, National Marine Fisheries

20 Service.

21 You will find an information table at the back of

22 this room with written materials about the proposed action

23 and these documents.

24 At this time I'd like to introduce Philip Detrich

25 and Dean Ludtke, who will be making some brief comments.

00098

1 MR. DETRICH: Thank you.

2 I'm Phil Detrich, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

3 The federal Endangered Species Act has established

4 protections for species listed as threatened and

5 endangered and provides for authorization of certain

6 impacts where such impacts comply with the criteria

7 established by the Act.

8 The most fundamental protection provided by the

9 Endangered Species Act is the prohibition against take of

10 species listed under the Act. "Take" includes actions

11 that would kill, harass or harm listed species.

12 "Incidental take" is defined as take that is incidental to

13 and not the purpose of the carrying out of an otherwise

14 lawful activity.

15 When incidental take may result from the actions of

16 state or local governments, corporations or private

17 individuals, Section 10 of the Endangered Species Act

18 directs the secretaries of the Department of Interior and

19 the Department of Commerce to issue permits for incidental

20 take when certain conditions are met by the applicant.

21 Those conditions are described in detail in the Act.

22 Most importantly, the applicant must submit a

23 Habitat Conservation Plan, or HCP; and among other things,

24 the HCP must describe the impacts of the taking and the

25 steps the applicant will take to minimize and mitigate

00099

1 such impacts.

2 The standards for the agencies' evaluation of the

3 HCP are also described in the Endangered Species Act.

4 Most importantly, the agencies must find that the taking

5 will not appreciably reduce the likelihood of survival and

6 recovery of the species in the wild. If the statutory

7 conditions are met, the incidental take permit will be

8 issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and National

9 Marine Fisheries Service.

10 The Pacific Lumber Company has prepared an HCP and

11 submitted an application for an incidental take permit for

12 several species. Also, the United States Congress and the

13 California legislature have approved appropriations for

14 acquisition of portions of Pacific Lumber's property if

15 the HCP is approved.

16 Because the issuance of an incidental take permit is

17 a federal action, the process is subject to review under

18 the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA. The State

19 of California is also undertaking environmental review

20 under the California Environmental Quality Act, or CEQA.

21 Therefore, the state and federal agencies have entered

22 into an agreement to prepare a single environmental

23 document called a joint EIR/EIS. Impacts considered under

24 NEPA and CEQA are not limited to the impacts on listed

25 species, but include all impacts of the action affecting

00100

1 the human environment. In addition to evaluation of the

2 effects of implementation of the HCP, the joint EIR/EIS

3 will cover the impacts of the proposed acquisition.

4 This public meeting is conducted as part of the

5 public comment period on the EIR/EIS. The public comment

6 period will close on November 16th, 1998. Because the

7 Congressional appropriation includes a deadline of March

8 1, 1999, for completion of the entire process, the public

9 comment period will not be extended beyond November 16.

10 On behalf of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the

11 National Marine Fisheries Service, I thank you for the

12 effort you've made to attend this meeting and also thank

13 you in advance for your comments.

14 And now we'll hear some introductory words from Mr.

15 Ludtke, the representative of the State of California.

16 MR. LUDTKE: Hello. I'm Dean Ludtke from the

17 California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

18 I'd like to read a few statements into the record.

19 The California Department of Forestry and Fire

20 Protection is the state lead agency under the California

21 Environmental Quality Act for this project. The

22 Department will use the Environmental Impact Report to

23 evaluate environmental impacts to the Sustained Yield Plan

24 submitted by the Pacific Lumber Company. The Department

25 will use the EIR to identify potentially significant

00101

1 adverse impacts and to determine whether the Sustained

2 Yield Plan needs to be modified with alternatives or

3 feasible mitigation measures to avoid or mitigate those

4 impacts. The EIR is a joint document with the federal

5 Environmental Impact Statement.

6 Sustained Yield Plans, or, for short, SYP's, are one

7 of the mechanisms that timberland owners can use to meet

8 the state requirement for maintaining maximum sustained

9 production of high-quality timber products while giving

10 consideration to values relating to watershed, fisheries

11 and wildlife.

12 SYP's must include projections of timber growth and

13 harvesting over at least a hundred-year planning horizon,

14 a fish and wildlife assessment, and a watershed

15 assessment. Subsequent Timber Harvesting Plans may rely

16 on the approved SYP to the extent that the issues are

17 addressed in it. Following approval, the SYP is enforced

18 for a period of no more than ten years.

19 The Department does not normally prepare an EIR for

20 Sustained Yield Plans, and usually uses its CEQA

21 Functional Equivalency under the Forest Practice Act.

22 However, in this case it was judged to be more efficient

23 to prepare an EIR as a joint document with the federal

24 EIS.

25 That concludes my comments.

00102

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, gentlemen.

3 As stated, public comments on these documents will

4 be accepted until November 16th, 1998. After review and

5 consideration of the comments and all other information

6 gathered during the comment period, the agencies will

7 prepare a final Environmental Impact Statement/

8 Environmental Impact Report.

9 The purpose of this hearing is to receive your oral

10 comments on the proposals. Information you offer on all

11 aspects of these proposals is important and will be

12 carefully considered. Because of the importance of your

13 comments, it's necessary that we follow certain procedures

14 here this afternoon.

15 If you want to present comments at this hearing, you

16 must register at the table at the back of the room. When

17 you register, indicate an organization that you represent.

18 When you are called to present your comments, come forward

19 to a microphone in the front. Please begin your

20 presentation by stating your full name, spell it for the

21 accuracy of the record, and indicate what organization you

22 represent, if any.

23 In order to accept the maximum number of comments

24 into the record, I will call two names at a time, the next

25 speaker to come to a microphone and the following speaker

00103

1 to come to the front. Because of the number of people who

2 wish to comment and the limited time available, we must

3 ask you that you limit your presentation to two to three

4 minutes at least. At the end of two minutes, I will

5 remind the speaker to briefly sum up their statement.

6 In order to give as many people as possible an

7 opportunity to speak at today's hearing, priorities should

8 be given to those who have not made oral comments at a

9 previous hearing session.

10 This is an informal hearing, and therefore you will

11 not be questioned or cross-examined in connection with

12 your comments. Also, it is not possible to answer your

13 questions here. Official responses to issues raised

14 during the comment period will be stated in the final

15 Environmental Impact Statement/Environmental Impact

16 Report.

17 Your statements are being recorded by a certified

18 court reporter to accurately preserve them for the record.

19 Please keep in mind, however, that the reporter will not

20 record any statements from the audience or which are made

21 to the audience. Comments must be made into the

22 microphone.

23 In order to allow as many people as possible to

24 speak, it is very important that everyone maintain an

25 atmosphere of courtesy and respect for each speaker.

00104

1 Thus, it is important you refrain from applause, argument,

2 cheering or other disruptions from the audience. It will

3 not be possible to make a clear record if there are

4 disruptions and thereby masking the words that are trying

5 to be put into the record by the speaker. We will

6 maintain a fair and neutral atmosphere in order to record

7 comments into the record.

8 Instead of presenting oral comments here this

9 afternoon, or in addition to oral comments, you may submit

10 comments in writing. Written comments can be submitted

11 today to the staff at the registration table. The same is

12 true for any exhibits you may want to be part of your

13 written or oral statement, and the court reporter will

14 make them part of the record. But again, give those to

15 the registration table at the back. Written comments will

16 be accepted until November 16th, 1998, and written

17 comments will be given the same consideration as oral

18 comments presented here.

19 At this time we're ready for the first speaker, and

20 would Bea Stanley come to this microphone on your right

21 there.

22 Great.

23 Jan Kraepelien will be then next.

24 Bea, your statement, please.

25 MS. STANLEY: Thank you for this opportunity.

00105

1 However, I really wish that it wasn't a necessity for this

2 opportunity.

3 You heard a lot from Pacific Lumber employees this

4 morning, and of course they are very worried about their

5 jobs and their futures. We're all worried about our jobs

6 and our futures. However, I feel particularly worried

7 about the state of our environment. I feel that it's

8 under siege on all sides. I think that this HCP would

9 better be called a "horrendous corporate plunder."

10 I cannot understand how, if you belong to these

11 agencies, that you can even consider this incidental take.

12 I think that there shouldn't even be such a thing. There

13 shouldn't even be such an allowed thing as an incidental

14 take, that this supersedes the real purpose of the

15 environment -- of the Endangered Species Act, and that

16 therefore on the face of it this plan is really illegal.

17 I feel it's based on unsound biology, and I think

18 that it's really based on the science that only money can

19 buy, and I hope that you'll reject this.

20 I cannot speak to very many things in three minutes,

21 but I had hoped that perhaps the tone of this afternoon

22 session would be a little different than the tone of the

23 first: not jobs, but let's all think about the world that

24 we have and the world that we're leaving to our

25 descendants.

00106

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bea.

3 Jan, before you start --

4 The next speaker after Jan will be Bonnie

5 Blackberry.

6 MR. KRAEPELIEN: Could I, before I make my remarks,

7 mention the things that we're submitting into the record

8 before I start my comments, because there's some things

9 I'm giving you here and things we're going to submit from

10 the Watershed Council I'd like to make part of the record.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: What you've submitted here is

12 part of the record?

13 MR. KRAEPELIEN: Yeah, and some more. And I'd like

14 to mention those before I begin my comments, please. Just

15 list them.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Your time has started, but go

17 ahead.

18 MR. KRAEPELIEN: Then I can't -- then I won't list

19 them, then.

20 My name is Jan Kraepelien. I'm a resident of

21 Freshwater, and I'm part of the Watershed Council, the

22 Freshwater Watershed Working Group.

23 We have -- I'd like to first off welcome the workers

24 from Pacific Lumber that came this morning. I'm grateful

25 they've had a chance to participate in the process. As I

00107

1 understand it, they were given the day off today and have

2 to work the day Saturday, so it's really to their credit.

3 Those that chose to come today didn't have to, and it's

4 important that they're part of the process.

5 I would ask them to look back into their past and

6 think about those of them that -- what you are going to

7 hear and what they're hearing from the citizens like me

8 that are going to be testifying today. We -- I have no

9 axe to grind in this. I have no particular purposes

10 except to protect my home and my valley and the people

11 that I value as my neighbors. Workers from PL are our

12 neighbors, and I think workers themselves need to question

13 what Mr. Hurwitz has done in terms of their pension plan,

14 their medical plan, and their benefits and things like

15 that. Do they feel secure in their jobs? And the main

16 thing is the boom-and-bust economy that's happened.

17 We've seen silting and flooding in our valley. I'd

18 like to define two quick terms for you: One is "Plaxxam,"

19 which is PL with an "axxam" kind of parasite on the side

20 that's sucking the company dry, the old PL that we knew.

21 Also, "blitzkrieg forestry," which is what we've

22 experienced.

23 The maps that I just handed out to you -- these

24 right here for people to see -- this is what we've seen

25 going on in Freshwater. An unprecedented rate of

00108

1 forestry, of deharvesting and deforesting of our areas,

2 causing these massive damages. We've been to CDF, we've

3 been to meetings of the Board of Forestry down in

4 Sacramento. We've done everything legally that we can

5 possibly do, including taking things to the court.

6 Our mission is the fact that we want a moratorium on

7 the logging of the five endangered watersheds, the five

8 impaired watersheds, until an analysis is done, a true

9 analysis.

10 Another term to define for you is "voodoo science."

11 The science that is being presented to you by PL has a bad

12 baseline. It's based on things in the last few years,

13 when the overcutting was occurring to begin with. It's

14 also -- we want the moratorium because we feel the new

15 science, the proper science, will show that our analysis

16 is correct. We're seeing damage from large clearcuts,

17 steep slopes -- logging on steep slopes, rather -- and

18 cumulative impacts. Inadequate buffers. Logging should

19 not take place on these kind of watersheds at a level of

20 more than one or two percent per year.

21 The idea of coming back to a watershed every 40

22 years and decimating it is as silly as giving somebody a

23 disease every 40 years and expecting them somehow to

24 recover from it. It's incredible.

25 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jan, I need you are summation,

00109

1 okay?

2 MR. KRAEPELIEN: Okay.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

4 MR. KRAEPELIEN: You have two issues before you:

5 One is the science issue, which you're going to hear a lot

6 of people testify about. The other is the credibility of

7 the company. This is not a credible partner to deal with,

8 and you cannot make this deal. And I understand

9 that people have been pressured into -- that this is the

10 last deal that's going to be made -- into all this kind of

11 thinking. This is not true. The deal can be greatly

12 improved. You have to watch out for them; 310 violations

13 of the Forest Practices Act, and today having their

14 license revoked, finally, after a lot of work.

15 The term "public trust" has two meanings. Public

16 trust in terms of the streams that run over their land

17 that are being impaired and causing damage. That's one

18 measure of public trust.

19 The other is the public trust that you are going to

20 be conveying to them by making this deal. It's a bad

21 deal. Do not make it in the form that it's in. We all

22 agree about private-property rights, but our rights also

23 extend to the private property of us, the downstream

24 landowners. And for the sake of the coho and the

25 environment, please turn down this deal in its present

00110

1 form.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jan.

3 Greg, Greg Wellish, after Bonnie speaks.

4 Bonnie, your testimony, please.

5 MS. BLACKBERRY: Bonnie Blackberry. You want me to

6 spell the last name? B-L-A-C-K-B-E-R-R-Y.

7 I'm a resident of Humboldt County. I'm not an

8 employee of PL. I'm here to ask you to not approve this

9 plan. I believe, as the other speaker said, credibility

10 and trust are very big factors on making something like

11 this, and Pacific Lumber has proved over and over that

12 they can't be trusted, and they've had all these

13 violations.

14 And what is happening to our environment -- I

15 believe that the human species is becoming an endangered

16 species, and it's because we're ruining the planet, our

17 environment, our nest. And to say we will go ahead and go

18 along with this because people need jobs, we need a life

19 and we need to think more than jobs for the next couple

20 years, because that's what it will be with this plan. We

21 have to think of the future and future generations and not

22 just make a buck now, and too bad.

23 The rivers are filling up, the mountains are washing

24 in, the pollution from the smoke is not dealt with at all.

25 And I live in the southern part of the county, and that's

00111

1 where all this, the pollution, goes. Spraying herbicides

2 and then burning it. The cancer rate in Humboldt County

3 is really high, and I personally feel like -- that their

4 logging practice of the slash and burn and the herbicides

5 is a health hazard to everybody here.

6 Thanks.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bonnie.

8 Before Greg speaks, Robie Tenorio will be the next

9 speaker.

10 Okay. Greg, your testimony.

11 MR. WELLISH: My name is Greg Wellish,

12 W-E-L-L-I-S-H.

13 I'm opposed to this Habitat Conservation Plan and

14 the Sustained Yield Plan, and I'll tell you why: Because

15 you as the agencies have abrogated your responsibility.

16 You're trusting an outlaw corporation that cannot be

17 trusted. Because you're trying to give away the

18 Endangered Species Act with these pieces of paper does not

19 mean that it's right, it does not mean that people are

20 going to stand for it, and it does not mean that species

21 will be saved. What it means is there's going to be more

22 and more ripped-out forest.

23 When I first came to Humboldt County 20 years ago,

24 you could not see a clearcut from any freeway. From most

25 public roads you didn't see clearcuts. You drive down 101

00112

1 today, you look at south of Scotia, and you all have

2 allowed them to rip the hills out.

3 We're at this point right now because the agencies

4 in this state and the federal agencies are not doing their

5 jobs. That's why we're here. We're going to continue to

6 be here. If you sit up there -- go back to your offices,

7 rubber-stamp these plans, the best science that money can

8 buy, it's not going to work. You just can't give it away.

9 The public isn't going to let you.

10 Now, I understand there's a lot of people here that

11 are concerned about their jobs, and that's natural, and I

12 feel for you. But I'll tell you what: You are not

13 guaranteed a livelihood at the expense of everyone else,

14 at the expense of your children, your children's children,

15 their children.

16 Think about it, folks. All of you, please. I know

17 you care. I know you're trying to do the best you can for

18 your families. But that's not where it's at. We're not

19 going to get anywhere with this. This plan says that we

20 can just keep ripping and ripping and ripping, and then

21 we're going to sustain this yield by having pulp products.

22 There isn't going to be any more wood to cut. What

23 there's going to be is pulp. There's going to be a whole

24 lot of stuff that can be chipped up.

25 And if we want forests like we've seen in the past,

00113

1 if we want these forests to be seen by future generations,

2 we'd better start thinking about it right now. Because

3 I'll tell you, I just took a trip to Oregon and all up the

4 Oregon Coast. They are just clearcutting, clearcutting,

5 clearcutting, and they're doing the same thing in

6 California. And as long as the agencies allow this, they

7 are going to do it. And by the time you all wake up and

8 try and do your job, it's going to be too late. And I

9 don't want to see that. I don't want to see it for me; I

10 don't want to see it for the people that work for Pacific

11 Lumber.

12 This is corporate plunder, plain and simple.

13 They're going to rip what they can. They're going to have

14 their plan that's going to be good for all these years.

15 And what are they going to do when they've ripped out for

16 the next five years? They're going to run. They're going

17 to sell their lands, and they're going to be gone. And

18 these good people in this hall today are going to be left

19 holding the debris. And I don't want to see more

20 Staffords, and I don't want to see any my community and my

21 county ruined because you all won't do your job. So all I

22 can say to you is do your job. Deny the plan.

23 Thank you.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

25 The next speaker is Robie Tenorio, and then after

00114

1 Robie will be Shawnee Alexandri.

2 MS. ROBIE: Hi. My name is Robie Tenorio.

3 First I'd like to say I'm thankful as a member of

4 the public I have the opportunity to speak to you today.

5 Some of my concerns about the plans are monitoring,

6 both compliance monitoring and effectiveness monitoring.

7 I'm also concerned about cumulative impacts; the issue of

8 avoidance strategy for mass wasting; the fact that new

9 land acquisitions are going to be included in this HCP, up

10 to 25,000 more acres that we don't know what's going to

11 happen to. But these and other issues are addressed in my

12 written comments that I'm going to submit to you.

13 Today I wanted to take this opportunity to express

14 my very deep and serious fear that the agencies that are

15 charged with overseeing and protecting our rivers and

16 forests and wildlife have not been doing their jobs.

17 As a mother and a resident landowner and a farmer, I

18 know our survival is directly related to the survival of

19 our river systems. My family lives on the Mattole River;

20 we know firsthand that the river is dying. We are

21 watching it die before our eyes. And we are desperately

22 holding on to the hope of recovery. We hope that there

23 may be a chance for the coho and other wildlife to

24 recover. But we know that if this HCP is passed and

25 Maxxam logs the area in the North Fork, the amount of

00115

1 sediment that will enter the river will spell disaster for

2 the estuary. An estuary could be destroyed.

3 We as a society are standing on the edge of a cliff,

4 and we're looking over the edge at a bottomless pit of

5 extinction. And I as a mother, I'm holding my son's hand

6 and telling him we have to have hope, and at the same time

7 I have to answer his questions. I have to answer his

8 questions of why is the government letting them do it?

9 Why does CDF let them clearcut on the steep mountains?

10 Why do they let them cut down the ancient trees? Why do

11 they allow them to destroy the river when they know the

12 fish are almost extinct? Why, Mom? Why do they let them?

13 And what should I tell them? What should I tell my

14 children?

15 I pray that you'll find it in your hearts, the

16 courage to do your job and deny this plan.

17 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Robie.

18 After Shawnee it will be Jonathan Pearl, will be

19 after Shawnee.

20 Your testimony, please.

21 MR. ALEXANDRI: Hey, my name is Shawnee Alexandri,

22 S-H-A-W-N-E-E A-L-E-X-A-N-D-R-I, and I'm here as a

23 Humboldt County resident and private taxpaying citizen.

24 Now, I have a couple points to put out there. First

25 off, we all heard PL lost their LTO today, their licensed

00116

1 timber operator. And that's done by CDF, and I would

2 really urge, you know, CDF to keep with this. They lost

3 their LTO last year also. It lasted about two days, maybe

4 a week at most. They got a provisional license. They got

5 another chance, three strikes. Well, 40 strikes later

6 they lost it again. I certainly hope they lose it for

7 more than a week this time.

8 My second point is, I heard a lot of PALCO workers

9 talk this morning about how well they're treated at PALCO.

10 Well, if they're treated so well, where is the pension

11 fund? Why did Pacific Lumber workers have to go to court

12 to get a fraction of their pension fund back from Maxxam?

13 Why was the standard of cutting trees at breast height

14 then lowered to knee height or waist height, where it's a

15 lot more dangerous? And also, if they were treated so

16 well, when workers show up at a site and Earth First is

17 stopping them -- workers showed up, they should get paid.

18 You guys should all get paid when you show up for

19 work, whether we're there or not. You should demand this

20 of your company.

21 Okay. Now to the SYP. Yes, an SYP means you're

22 growing more than you're cutting. Yes, more board feet is

23 going to grown than cut over a hundred years. But what's

24 going to be left? There's going to be no habitat.

25 Twenty-year-old trees do not house spotted owls, do not

00117

1 house marbled murrelets, do not house many things.

2 It will make great deer habitat, great elk habitat, but

3 there'll be no old-growth. Sure, you'll have lots of pulp

4 trees, but nothing left for any of the habitat to live in,

5 no habitat left, no old-growth.

6 Also, everyone is saying, you know, "There isn't

7 enough buffer zone around streams"; "There is enough."

8 There isn't, there is; who cares. There's no

9 protection for Class III streams whatsoever. None. Now,

10 you can't look me in the eye and tell me that a Class III

11 stream, when it slides into it and gets silted, doesn't

12 then run into a Class II, which has a hundred-foot buffer,

13 and then run into a Class I, which has 170-foot buffer. A

14 Class III stream destroys all the streams. You can't deny

15 that. You have to take action on that.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Shawnee, I need your summation.

17 MR. ALEXANDRI: In summation, one more thing: PALCO

18 says they're good neighbors. Well, ask Stafford, ask

19 Freshwater, ask the Mattole. They're not good

20 neighbors. Nobody here will say they're good neighbors.

21 And, in summary, oppression basically breeds

22 resistance; and this is oppression, of nature, of

23 communities, of everything. And there will be resistance,

24 more than ever before. We are not going to stop because

25 this is a done deal, open and shut and paid for. We're

00118

1 going to fight it, every last bit. You know, we have

2 to --

3 You know, there are other plans. There's a

4 stewardship plan that, if people took half a second to

5 look at, might seem interesting. You know, we have to

6 have debt for nature and jail Hurwitz. We have to think

7 of the communities first here, the planets first here, the

8 people first. Earth first. Profits last.

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: After Jonathan, it's David

10 Walsh.

11 Jonathan?

12 MR. PEARL: I'm calling this common sense versus

13 political voodoo. The Maxxam/PL Habitat Conservation Plan

14 is political voodoo -- nothing more, nothing less --

15 intended only to deceive the public, drive wildlife to

16 extinction, maximize short-term profit and long-term tree

17 farms. The real purpose of the plan is the incidental

18 take permit. Known as the "license to kill," its purpose

19 is to circumvent the Endangered Species Act, incidentally

20 allowing a company to harm, harass or kill, that is, take,

21 endangered species by removing their natural habitat.

22 I don't see the logic of rewarding an ITP in

23 exchange for saving some small part of the habitat that is

24 supposed to be protected under the ESA to begin with.

25 There is no scientific or logical way to mitigate the

00119

1 destruction of endangered species habitat. This logic is

2 fundamentally and tragically flawed. It has nothing

3 whatsoever to do with conservation.

4 Although the plan covers 50 years, the vast majority

5 of the value of the forest will be cut in the first ten

6 years. That is 32 percent faster than will grow back,

7 over 25 percent of company land -- that's 54 thousand

8 acres -- 35,000 acres of which will be clearcut, including

9 3500 acres of ancient forest. Clearly, this is

10 unsustainable; boom-and-bust, short-term exploitation at

11 long-term cost.

12 The plan includes clearcutting virgin forest on the

13 company's steepest, most unstable slopes since these

14 slopes are the only ones in the company that are rugged

15 enough to be thus far spared the axe. Combined with the

16 plan's woefully inadequate riparian buffers, this is a

17 recipe for landslides as well as coho extinction. Since

18 clearcutting paves the way for tree farms, that is,

19 even-aged, monoculture plantations, the use of herbicide,

20 pesticide and chemical fertilizer will be far more

21 widespread, thus further polluting our water.

22 The no-surprises clause further undermines the ESA

23 by not requiring landowners to take responsibility for

24 protection of future ESA listings. Currently, three

25 species are supposedly protected, while another 33 species

00120

1 found here await protection in their threatened

2 environment.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jonathan, I need your summation.

4 Thank you.

5 MR. PEARL: Maxxam/PL is an outlaw corporation,

6 exercising callous disregard and irresponsibility for

7 Forest Practice Rules. With close to 250 violations of

8 forestry in less than four years -- that's nearly 100

9 violations per year -- Maxxam/PL is the first major

10 California logging company to be placed on probation,

11 committing some 40 to 60 violations since placed on

12 probation this year.

13 The company has had a hard time harvesting timber

14 without violations, yet the California Department of

15 Forestry doesn't appear to be capable of denying them a

16 single Timber Harvest Plan. Their timber operator's

17 license should be revoked, along with their corporate

18 charter. By law, they should not be allowed an HCP, SYP

19 or ITP. This is under Section 50 CFR 13.21 of the General

20 Permit Guidelines.

21 Among Maxxam's most recent violations were those in

22 the Timber Harvest Plan where protester David Chain was

23 killed by a tree felled on an extremely steep slope. In

24 short, the HCP is pure junk science, not at all unlike the

25 junk bonds used to take over PL 13 years ago, having less

00121

1 than nothing to do with conservation and everything to do

2 with cutting and running.

3 Thank you.

4 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jonathan.

5 After David will be Dale Neiman.

6 David, your testimony, please.

7 MR. WALSH: Yes. Since the acquisition of

8 Headwaters Forest is key to the Habitat Conservation Plan,

9 the -- a lot of people will be addressing you on the

10 nature of the Habitat Conservation Plan and why it is

11 deficient in terms of a 50-year plan to conserve species

12 on the North Coast.

13 But what I'm here to address to you today is a

14 deficiency that I see in the process that was -- it was

15 established back in 1996 when Diane Feinstein and, you

16 know, and the Council on Environmental Quality came up

17 with the acquisition area that they were going to

18 purchase. The acquisition area has some serious problems,

19 not the least of which is that there's a thousand-acre

20 hole right in the middle of the area that the people are

21 going to be buying, that the public will be purchasing.

22 This thousand-acre hole is supposed to be

23 transferred to Maxxam. The area will be owned by the

24 state and the federal governments for a short time period

25 until it is transferred to Maxxam under the current plan,

00122

1 but that -- the current design does not protect the

2 watershed. And I believe since this whole issue came

3 about based on the fact that people were trying to protect

4 something, that the agencies should keep in mind that they

5 are not adequately protecting a watershed. And if --

6 Humboldt County has a very strong memory of what happened

7 during Redwood National Park; and Redwood National Park,

8 they allowed -- the agencies allowed the companies to log

9 until the midnight hour, and we purchased a bunch of cut-

10 over land.

11 Well, we've got this thousand-acre hole in the

12 reserves that needs to be addressed. And if the state's

13 going to buy it in the first place, then why aren't we

14 going to keep it? And considering that's where some of

15 the -- most trees are in the whole -- in the whole buffer

16 area for the grove, then we should reevaluate the lines

17 that have been established on paper thus far and really

18 address the problem.

19 Now, to make matters worse, three days before the

20 money was approved by the state legislature to purchase

21 all this land, the California Department of Forestry

22 approved a 700-acre Timber Harvest Plan that is smack-dab

23 in the middle of the area that the public is going to be

24 purchasing. Now, why would we design -- what kind of

25 science -- I don't think there was any science that was

00123

1 devoted to establishing the guidelines for what we were

2 going to purchase.

3 But regardless, the -- what kind of science dictates

4 that we should have a reserve with a hole in the middle of

5 it, and why should Maxxam have an inholding in what we

6 consider to be public lands, that will soon be public

7 lands?

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: David, I need your summation.

9 MR. WALSH: That's fine.

10 I think that this process needs to reevaluate what

11 we are spending $500 hundred million to purchase and that

12 the State of California and the federal government should

13 retain those lands in the buffer area inside the reserve

14 area along the south fork of the Elk River, which is one

15 of the most intact watersheds from Redwood National Park

16 to Humboldt Redwood State Park. It is like the third most

17 intact redwood watershed in the world. Then why are we

18 leaving a hole in the middle of it, approving -- CDF

19 approving a Timber Harvest Plan to cut 705 acres in

20 the middle of the reserve? And this points to the junk

21 science that's been used.

22 There's a hole in the Headwaters Reserve, there's a

23 hole in the process, and you guys better figure it out and

24 straighten it out or people are going to be very upset

25 about it. And we have an institutional memory of the

00124

1 agencies failing us on Redwood National Park, and this is

2 another instance.

3 Thank you.

4 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, David.

5 Carolyn Swanson will be speaking after Dale.

6 Go ahead, Dale.

7 MR. NEIMAN: Dale Neiman, N-E-I-M-A-N, city manager

8 of Fortuna.

9 The Fortuna City Council has reviewed Pacific Lumber

10 Company's Habitat Conservation Plan and have the following

11 comments in regard to the proposed plan.

12 The council feels strongly that it is time to bring

13 closure to the controversy surrounding the Pacific Lumber

14 Company operations on land owned by the company. The

15 adoption of the Sustained Yield Plan and accompanying

16 Habitat Conservation Plan by the responsible governmental

17 entities is perhaps the final step towards resolving

18 conflict over the so-called Headwaters Forest issue.

19 The future economy and economic viability of Fortuna

20 and the surrounding communities is the overriding factor

21 considered by the counsel in its review of the Habitat

22 Conservation Plan, as is the concern for the underlying

23 factor of constitutionally guaranteed property rights and

24 the fact that decisions seem to be based on political

25 agendas rather than field-proven science.

00125

1 In our opinion, implementation of the Sustained

2 Yield Plan, which is based on a 120-year horizon, would

3 give us a few decades of fairly constant timber

4 harvesting and, therefore, some economic stability into

5 the immediate future. Beyond the first few decades, we

6 could experience some economic decline as timber

7 harvesting is reduced.

8 The counsel feels that knowledge of future turndown

9 in our timber economy would allow us to plan for and

10 develop a broader economic base, potentially offsetting

11 the decline. The council also feels that the projected

12 decline in harvesting timber from privately owned lands

13 should give the federal government, i.e., Six Rivers

14 National Forest, time to again -- to allow harvesting on

15 publicly owned lands. Present and projected harvest rates

16 for Six Rivers Forest does not and will not reflect the

17 intended purpose of the national forest complex, that of

18 provided stable lumber supply for U.S. consumers.

19 Even militant nonshareholders in the timber wars

20 profess only to be concerned for a sustained-yield policy.

21 Such a concept would allow harvesting hundreds of millions

22 of board feet of timber per year from Six Rivers National

23 Forest. It would allow sustainable economy for the North

24 Coast and a reasonably priced, environmentally sound

25 lumber supply for our grandchildren into perpetuity.

00126

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Dale, I need your summation.

2 Thank you.

3 MR. NEIMAN: As a final note, the greatest concern

4 the council has is not with the Habitat Conservation Plan

5 but with the effects on the future of all timber

6 harvesting and possibly rural and urban development, which

7 is contained in the agreement already reached on the

8 government purchase of the so-called Headwaters Forest.

9 Besides the atrocity of allowing the federal

10 government to play a role in timber harvests on privately

11 owned lands, the excessive streamside buffer zones that

12 have already been agreed to and proposed have a potential

13 to take thousands of acres of prime, privately owned

14 timber out of production. And this practice is mandated

15 in the future. Future effects of these excessive

16 streamside buffer zones will most likely create serious

17 impacts on rural and urban development, as governmental

18 entities, along with the environmental community, rush to

19 extend streamside protection. The situations have an even

20 greater adverse economic impact on California.

21 Thank you.

22 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dale.

23 After Carolyn it will be Robert Diperna.

24 Okay. Carolyn, your testimony, please.

25 MS. SWANSON: My name is Carolyn Swanson,

00127

1 S-W-A-N-S-O-N.

2 I'm opposed to the HCP/SYP plan for obvious reasons.

3 Hurwitz has broken many laws, not to mention the 310

4 violations, and now we hear this morning that he's union-

5 busting by -- it's a despicable situation.

6 I'd just like to mention, too, that I'm a native

7 Californian and I grew up in Lassen County, where my

8 mother and my grandmother both worked for the Department

9 of -- California Department of Forestry. And I walked

10 with them in the woods planting trees. And my mother said

11 to me, "Walk carefully, because there's the snow plant."

12 Because there were laws to protect the snow plant from

13 extinction, and the laws were upheld -- it takes some

14 courage to uphold laws and speak out. And I think that's

15 the job for the CDF. There are laws in place to protect

16 the endangered species.

17 My mother and grandmother told me this was a "rare

18 plant." "Endangered" wasn't used at that time. Today I

19 cannot take my grandchildren and walk through the same

20 woods where the trees have grown and see the same plants.

21 I hope that you, as a responsible agency, hopefully

22 will do the same for the future generations. And that's

23 who I'm here to speak for, the future generations.

24 Thank you for your time.

25 PRESIDING OFFICER: After Robert, it'll be Tracy

00128

1 Katelman.

2 Robert, your testimony, please.

3 MR. DIPERNA: Thank you, gentlemen. My name is

4 Robert Diperna. My last name is spelled D-I, capital

5 P-E-R-N-A. I am a teacher and an activist and a resident

6 of Humboldt County, California.

7 And I would like to simply state that this entire

8 process of approval for the Pacific Lumber HCP and SYP is

9 not valid based on the stipulations in the Endangered

10 Species Act, which outline that the company cannot receive

11 these plans' approval if they have been criminally

12 convicted on charges for the same thing which the permits

13 is being applied for. And that's obviously true.

14 The law also stipulates that it is not possible if

15 the company has evidenced a lack of responsibility; and

16 Pacific Lumber has clearly evidenced a lack of

17 responsibility for the law, for the public-trust resources

18 of our county and to the people of this county, including

19 their workers.

20 And I would like to suggest to the workers of this

21 county and the workers of Pacific Lumber and to the people

22 of all of this county that there is no conflict between

23 the environment and the people and the workers here.

24 What is best for the environment and what is best for the

25 workers are one and the same: Certified sustainable

00129

1 forestry with real jobs, certified real restoration that

2 will create jobs for generations to come, getting Maxxam

3 out of Humboldt County, getting Charles Hurwitz to pay his

4 debt to the United States government, to the forest and to

5 the people of Humboldt County.

6 Maxxam out of Humboldt. Earth first.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Robert.

8 After Tracy it will be Craig Bell.

9 Tracy, your testimony, please.

10 MS. KATELMAN: My name is Tracy Katelman,

11 K-A-T-E-L-M-A-N. And I'm going to speak to you guys,

12 because I don't really have a lot of faith in the

13 government anymore. I was raised in Watergate-era

14 politics, and, you know, our leaders can be bought for

15 anything. And it seems if there's any democracy in this

16 country, it happens in the communities. It happens where

17 people have a chance to talk to each other.

18 And what I heard this morning from the folks working

19 at Pacific Lumber is that we do have a lot of common

20 ground, and we were challenged this morning to talk about

21 our common ground and talk about possible solutions. And

22 I know, I believe in my heart, that every one of us

23 really cares about the future of the forest here, that we

24 have common ground and that we're all here today. That

25 we're all taking off work today to be here. We care about

00130

1 the future of our forests, we care about the future of our

2 families, we want to have healthy communities, and we want

3 to be able to live prosperously and happy with our friends

4 and neighbors. And I believe we can do that.

5 Maybe I'm idealistic, but I became a forester

6 because of that. I never thought I would do that as a

7 kid, but here I am a forester, and I'm practicing here in

8 the county and I'm trying to work on solutions. I'm

9 trying to figure out how we can practice foresty without

10 destroying the forest, maybe even regenerating the forest

11 that was left to us a few decades ago.

12 When I submitted a plan recently, CDF asked me, "How

13 come we haven't gotten any public comments on your plan

14 yet? Is there some kind of conspiracy going on? We

15 never don't have public comments out on the Mattole."

16 It's because I took the time to talk to my neighbors and

17 the neighbors of the land and the people in there and make

18 sure and address their concerns, because that's part of a

19 sustainable forest.

20 When I hear people from Freshwater and Elk River

21 worried if, you know, this winter their houses are going

22 to go under, that's not okay. That's not what -- I was

23 raised on what is right and wrong. I'm sorry; that is not

24 right. When Maxxam -- Charles Hurwitz is sending his

25 employees up to Washington to cross a picket line where

00131

1 people are trying to have, you know, real wages. That's

2 not okay, either.

3 So I think we can work together, and I challenge us

4 to try to do that. We're here today. Let's try to get

5 the supervisors, somebody, where we can have an

6 opportunity to talk to each other and figure this out.

7 Obviously this is not in Charles Hurwitz's best

8 interests. He -- you know, Hurwitz -- the people of

9 Humboldt County aren't even on his radar screen. You

10 know, it's just like we're part of the problem, and

11 they're trying to figure out how to get rid of us. And

12 this Habitat Conservation Plan is what he wants because

13 he's going to get the big bucks and he's going to be able

14 to continue to take and take and take from that forest.

15 How can they say it's a sustained yield when it's

16 overharvesting 30 percent more than the old-growth in the

17 next decade, or something like that. And that doesn't

18 even include things beyond the trees. So what about

19 growing the soil? You know, anybody who's a farmer knows

20 you don't have a future if you don't have your soil.

21 Let's look at what we can do together to have some

22 solutions. I'm sorry, but I do not think that Charles

23 Hurwitz cares for us. Get Charles Hurwitz out of Humboldt

24 County. He'll cut it out down and then he'll sell it to

25 some folks here, and then what we have to work with is the

00132

1 shreds. And let's figure out a way now to do it, before

2 we've lost the last of our chance for recovery so our kids

3 can be able to work in the forests here.

4 Thank you. I hope to talk to you all sometime.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Tracy.

6 After Craig talks, it's Jeff Kidd.

7 Craig, your testimony, please.

8 MR. BELL: Yes. My name is Craig Bell, and I'm here

9 today as a fisherman representing the Northern California

10 Association of River Guides. Additional affiliations are

11 chairman of the Mendocino County Fish and Game Commission,

12 member of the Citizens Advisory Committee to the

13 California state legislature on salmon and steelhead. I

14 own a small restoration company and a few other things

15 which I won't mention.

16 I didn't want to do any of those things. I naively

17 thought if I participated in all those processes that I

18 could get back to being a fisherman in my lifetime. At

19 this time I don't really believe I'll ever be a commercial

20 salmon fisherman again in my lifetime. My guide business

21 is so shattered by our complete loss of harvest, I don't

22 know that I'll get to be a guide again in my lifetime.

23 But I am working hard for my fellow guides, and maybe some

24 of the younger ones will get to be guides again.

25 For us fishermen, this Habitat Conservation Plan is

00133

1 far more important than the Headwaters. And why they are

2 linked, I'm not certain, but a 50-year suit of armor that

3 protects challenges to individuals THP's is a frightening

4 concept to someone such as myself, who was a former

5 logger; and to think that we can't challenge a THP -- that

6 this has a suit of armor, as this thing is written, is

7 terrifying to me, someone who's been on the ground.

8 And as fishermen, we lost our harvest. We lost our

9 harvest of steelhead, we lost our harvest of coho salmon,

10 and we lost our harvest of chinook salmon on the Mattole

11 River and main-stem Eel. That's equivalent to the timber

12 industry losing its ability to harvest redwood and Doug

13 fir.

14 The State of California, when they took that harvest

15 away, checked the box "no economic impacts." Okay. What

16 I can say -- this is the beginning of real science, which

17 is by definition the product of public and peer review.

18 What went down in Sacramento happened in closed doors, and

19 I can tell you it happened behind closed doors because I

20 was there and despite being an appointed city -- or county

21 and state official, I couldn't get behind the closed doors

22 into the meetings. And I can say -- I urge the federal

23 scientists to think of fishermen when they decide, again

24 behind closed doors, what are acceptable risks.

25 And under the Endangered Species Act, Section 10,

00134

1 conditions for an incidental take permit, reasonable

2 expectations have to be met that the company will carry

3 out the mitigations. I feel the public, state and federal

4 government should not trust a company that today has lost

5 its timber license, nor the California Department of

6 Forestry, which has been promising recovery since 1973 and

7 recovery has not happened. The federal government's had

8 to step in with the Clean Water Act and declare 17 rivers

9 impaired to try to get some real action to stop sediment.

10 And this company -- citizens that have come forward

11 with real data and real photos of actual damage on the

12 ground are labeled by Pacific Lumber Company's John

13 Campbell as extremists. And I'm happy to join myself as

14 those extremists, and we are drawing a line in the sand on

15 the Mattole River. We're not going to allow Pacific

16 Lumber to liquidate the Mattole River. I went over and

17 locked down to a gate over there. I'll do it again, and

18 there's many people who will do it here again.

19 I'll sum up. I ask that the people please -- the

20 state please apply following standards: The HCP has to be

21 meaningful, measurable, and enforceable. It has to say

22 where, when and how, or you have nothing. I can tell you,

23 this HCP as now written -- if it was an automobile, the

24 forestry association lawyers wouldn't buy the car if that

25 was the warranty.

00135

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Craig.

2 Pat Higgins will be after Jeff.

3 Jeff, your testimony, please.

4 MR. KIDD: My name is Jeff Kidd, J-E-F-F K-I-D-D.

5 I'm a consulting biologist, for the past six years in the

6 state of California, and I have authorization from the

7 Fish and Wildlife Service to conduct research on six

8 endangered species. And I'd like to bring before you two

9 important legal issues regarding the unlawful take of

10 unidentified bird species for which PALCO would not be

11 covered under an endangered species permit, the 10(a)

12 permit.

13 First, in the event a Section 10(a) permit is issued

14 to PALCO, they will be authorized to incidentally take

15 identified species covered under the ESA. However, they

16 are not authorized to take unidentified species, which are

17 protected by law under 50 CFR 21, the Migratory Bird

18 Treaties Act of 1918. Under Section 50 CFR 21.27

19 regarding the MBTA, a special-purpose permit can be issued

20 for limited take. However, the terms of such permit are

21 only valid for a period of three years.

22 This is a far cry from the 50-year authorized

23 proposed take, and I think this is a major problem,

24 because 50 years is just too much. The MBTA only

25 authorizes three years.

00136

1 And it's also been recently brought to my attention

2 that a new interpretation of this act, when applied to

3 timber harvesting, completely abrogates the reasons for

4 which it was created. I cannot think of very many

5 practices where mass killings of birds occur, but this is

6 certainly one of them. I vehemently disagree with this

7 new interpretation and ask myself, how can guidelines

8 relating to the MBTA and other regional conservation

9 plans, such as the NCCP Act, Section 2800 of the Cal Fish

10 and Game code, be so inconsistent with one another?

11 Simply read, birds listed in 50 CFR 10.13 of the

12 MBTA should be protected against mass killings, regardless

13 of the intent to take. Second, more importantly, the

14 Section 10(a) permit fails to consider California

15 Department of Fish and Game codes, including but not

16 limited to Sections 3503.5, 3505 and 3800, which prohibit

17 the take, possession or destruction of both identified and

18 unidentified birds, their nests or eggs.

19 As a result, I believe it's absolutely necessary for

20 the Fish and Wildlife Service and the California

21 Department of Fish and Game to convene the necessary

22 parties so that current guidelines relating HCP's and the

23 Migratory Bird Treaty Act no longer conflict, California

24 Department of Fish and Game codes, and to find a way in

25 which the Endangered Species Act could complement, instead

00137

1 of supersede, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion.

3 MR. KIDD: In closing, I feel it's crucial for this

4 working group to address these concerns, and by doing so,

5 both U.S. Wildlife Service and Cal Fish and Game reaffirm

6 their commitment to a sound HCP process, and, most

7 importantly, reaffirm their commitment to conserve our

8 resources defined under the ESA. We all need to remember

9 that conserve, by definition, is to protect and enhance

10 resources in a manner in which measures pursuant to the

11 ESA are no longer needed and the species can be

12 downlisted.

13 So my comment to you is, do you really think the

14 mitigations set forth in this HCP will help downlist the

15 identified species in this 10(a) permit, or will it just

16 help maintain their current endangered status, because

17 definition of "conserve" is to help bring the animal back

18 and downlist it.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jeff.

21 After Pat will be Kevin Bundy.

22 MR. HIGGINS: Good afternoon. My name is Patrick

23 Higgins, H-I-G-G-I-N-S, and I'd like to thank you for this

24 opportunity to comment.

25 I'm a fisheries biologist in Arcata, California.

00138

1 And over the last several months I've had the privilege of

2 assembling all the fish and water-quality data regarding

3 Pacific Lumber Company's land, including the data from the

4 HCP and the California Department of Fish and Game. I

5 have put that information on a CD-ROM, which I will submit

6 into evidence today, called KRIS-coho. And a thousand

7 people have this in their hands, as well as the agencies.

8 And the data here suggests that in the areas where

9 the company has operated most intensively since the Maxxam

10 takeover, that coho salmon have virtually disappeared.

11 The HCP is fundamentally flawed. It poses jeopardy; that

12 is, it will cause the further decline and extinction of

13 coho salmon and is therefore illegal. The reason it's

14 illegal is because it will allow the same pattern and

15 practice clearly defined in the SYP in the Freshwater

16 watershed and in the Elk River watershed and the Mattole

17 watershed. This caused the demise and almost extinction

18 that's present in the Van Duzen watershed, the Yager Creek

19 watershed, and in the lower Eel.

20 And the evidence is very clear. The HCP does not

21 protect Headwaters streams; therefore, there's a pathway

22 for sediment for jeopardy to coho; it does not prohibit

23 timber harvest on landslides; and it does not prohibit

24 timber harvests in watersheds where coho salmon streams

25 are already at lethal temperatures and over sediment

00139

1 levels that allow the survival of the species.

2 This is a fundamentally flawed process. We have the

3 company drawing its own plan; and of course, because of

4 self-interests, it is not played level. It has filtered

5 data -- not included data that was not favorable; it has

6 not drawn appropriate conclusions; and it has not based

7 its plan on best science.

8 The HCP, in fact, will be superseded by watershed

9 analysis. The company assures us that watershed analysis

10 will lead to the best decisions for coho salmon. Well,

11 the watershed-analysis process in Washington, according to

12 recent studies, had 60 percent of its conclusions -- that

13 is, prescriptions -- after the WA process was completed

14 that were not based in science. The company will offer

15 prescriptions to the agencies, and the agencies will

16 accept or reject.

17 What happens here is that basically the Board of

18 Forestry of California will be put back in charge as to

19 the extent of timber harvesting in riparian zones, which

20 the public is led to believe are protected, and it will

21 also have sway over whether or not landslides -- will

22 allow timber harvests on landslides.

23 This is the process that has failed. That is why we

24 have the Endangered Species Act. That's why we're here

25 today. And some of you folks here, or maybe above you,

00140

1 are ready to bless this deal because the President and

2 Secretary Babbitt and Diane Feinstein have said that this

3 deal has to go down so we need to accept the HCP.

4 The people of Humboldt County, thousands of us,

5 understand the significance of this plan. We understand

6 that this is the last chance for the salmon, and we will

7 not allow the salmon to go extinct. You must reject this

8 Habitat Conservation Plan. It poses jeopardy. If the

9 company has played a high-stakes gamble by basically

10 putting forth a nonscientific document that is strictly in

11 its own interests, that is really unfortunate for the

12 workers here; but you gentlemen have one call, and that is

13 to protect endangered species under the law.

14 And you must do your job. You must reject this plan

15 and draft one that is scientifically sound and that will

16 lead us to sustainability.

17 And I will submit this.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Pat.

19 After Kevin speaks, it'll be Jean Cadwell.

20 Kevin, your testimony, please.

21 MR. BUNDY: Thank you.

22 My name is Kevin Bundy, B-U-N-D-Y. I live in

23 Redway, California.

24 All of the documents before you today, the Habitat

25 Conservation Plan, Sustained Yield Plan and the draft

00141

1 Environmental Impact Statement and Environmental Impact

2 Report are scientifically and legally deficient and should

3 not be approved.

4 Your agencies, along with the Maxxam Corporation,

5 are presenting the people of California with a Trojan

6 Horse. At first glance it looks like a beautiful redwood

7 grove wrapped up in sweeping conservation reforms.

8 However, upon closer examination it reveals itself to be

9 an expensive island of habitat in a sea of clearcuts,

10 packed with short-term forest-liquidation plans, based on

11 junk science and empty rhetoric.

12 Just an example of this junk science: The HCP

13 defers collection of basic, baseline watershed

14 information as well as development of site-specific

15 logging prescriptions to a watershed analysis process that

16 will not be completed for at least three years. Thus, the

17 incidental take permit -- the 50-year, no-surprises

18 guarantee -- would be granted on the basis of undeveloped

19 information and undeveloped prescriptions generated by an

20 untested process.

21 There is no provision of law or regulation allowing

22 agencies to defer collection or analysis of data. On the

23 contrary, HCP's by law are to be evaluated and approved

24 only in accordance with the best available science, and

25 only if the proposed level of take is mitigated to the

00142

1 maximum extent practicable. Because neither the science

2 nor the mitigations are developed, this plan cannot

3 legally be approved. A plan to do further planning does

4 not comply with the provisions of the Endangered Species

5 Act, the California Environmental Quality Act or the

6 National Environmental Policy Act.

7 We've heard a lot about the violations, and just

8 today the timber operator's license of Pacific Lumber has

9 been revoked by the CDF because of these violations. This

10 would seem to render them ineligible for an incidental

11 take permit under 50 CFR 13.21 and 220.21. But I believe

12 the recent number of violations indicate a failed way of

13 doing business: Maximizing present net worth and to heck

14 with the future. Breaking the law is just a cost of doing

15 business for this company. But if we look at the

16 hillsides, the muddy rivers and the idle fishing boats, we

17 can see that this model of doing business has failed.

18 This HCP/SYP liquidates all available mature and

19 ancient forests in about the next 20 years. And where

20 will the good mill and woods jobs be then? Maybe some of

21 these kids will be lucky enough to run a feller/buncher,

22 or work in the fiberboard plant. But when artificial

23 booms end, they end in a bust; and when those booms are

24 created by the illegal liquidation, that ends in a bust.

25 We have an alternative: Preserve the best, restore

00143

1 the rest. The money going to Hurwitz should go to this

2 community so working people can have good jobs at good

3 wages, putting back together what their bosses would

4 rather have them destroy.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Kevin.

7 After Jean it will be Sunshine Mansfield.

8 MS. CADWELL: Hello. My name is Jean Cadwell,

9 C-A-D-W-E-L-L. I'm a current resident of Humboldt County

10 and just recently moved here from Minnesota, so I kind of

11 can understand how a big corporation can kind of throw its

12 weight around the community.

13 A couple years ago, we bailed out Norwest Airlines

14 because they promised to cut out and run and take all the

15 jobs with them. What happened actually was, after they

16 got bailed out by the state, we had -- they immediately

17 fired a whole bunch of people. We had a net loss of jobs.

18 And Norwest is even -- wasn't even most of the jobs in our

19 state. It wasn't even as bad a corporation as PL, which

20 -- you know, we have a twice-revoked license here; we have

21 willful breaking of the law; we have -- you know, like,

22 we've got scab labor. We have all these kind of issues.

23 How can we trust this corporation?

24 Accepting this plan will perhaps further the

25 precedent in Mendocino County of extracting old-growth,

00144

1 pulling out after a few years when it becomes less and

2 less profitable to cut younger and younger trees. So I

3 can't see that the whole job issue is necessarily a really

4 big one, because it's been proven in Minnesota that you

5 can train people to do other jobs. It's called "economic

6 conversion." It works. It's something real, as opposed

7 to something fake like using jobs as a -- as a measure,

8 you know, as a threat for politics.

9 I had a whole bunch of stuff that other people said,

10 so I'll let other people say stuff; but I want to say

11 paid mitigation is a dangerous precedent, no surprises is

12 a dangerous precedent, locking yourself in for 50 years is

13 a dangerous precedent. Forests are not agriculture. A

14 forest is not a tree farm. The value of the ecosystems go

15 far beyond agriculture.

16 And that's about it. Thanks.

17 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jean.

18 After Sunshine will be Agnes Patak.

19 Sunshine, your testimony, please.

20 MS. MANSFIELD: Hi. My name is Sunshine Mansfield,

21 and I oppose the HCP, the SYP and the Headwaters

22 Agreement.

23 PALCO should not be granted the right to ITP's

24 because of already existing violations of the Endangered

25 Species Act, such as Owl Creek and Freshwater. They don't

00145

1 have a clean enough record for such a privilege.

2 For going into the next century, the SYP plan --

3 it's too abstract and it's filled with plenty of bad

4 science, and it's never too late to put a ban on all

5 old-growth logging.

6 Also, about the appraisal process of the land that's

7 in the Headwaters Agreement: At Grizzly Creek, where

8 David Gypsy Chain was killed, it's already bare. How many

9 bare hill slides -- excuse me, hillsides would you expect

10 us to pay for? You, the FWS, CDF, the NMFS, you were

11 created to look after and protect the interests of timber

12 workers, native peoples, citizens and the communities they

13 live in from greedy timber barons. Your representation of

14 us has been as minimal as the fines PALCO pays for

15 violations.

16 As you can see, Maxxam is challenging the, quote/

17 unquote, "honor system" and fragmenting the communities.

18 I don't -- as much as I don't trust PALCO, I also don't

19 trust you to follow through on your end of the agreement.

20 Already THP's are monitored by many forest defenders; and

21 as I see it, someone lost their life doing your work. It

22 would be in your best interests to make a donation of

23 videocameras to them.

24 Our future here -- our future here is not secure

25 with you or Maxxam. You must be -- our future is -- wait.

00146

1 Our future here is not secure with you or Maxxam. It

2 must be decided by those who live here. I propose CDF

3 adopt the principles of sustainability from the Headwaters

4 stewardship plan. For now, it's safer to go with

5 Alternative 1 -- No Action, No Project -- and review THP's

6 on a case-by-case basis and not permit the take of

7 endangered species.

8 I'd also like to thank you a little bit for

9 Alternative 4, where you at least acknowledge the whole

10 63,000 acres.

11 This is my mom here. She can take it away.

12 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay.

13 Thank you, Sunshine.

14 Suzanne Beers? Suzanne will speak after Agnes.

15 Agnes, your testimony, please.

16 MS. PATAK: My name is Agnes Patak, P-A-T-A-K. I'm

17 with the Native American Coalition for Headwaters. I'm

18 also with WOE, Women of the Earth. I've been living in

19 Humboldt County for over 18 years, and I'm a mother of

20 four children, two of them born and raised here in

21 Humboldt County.

22 This morning you heard a lot of testimony from two-,

23 three-generation timber workers and people from Humboldt

24 County. But there's a history in Humboldt County that

25 goes way back before the timber workers got here, before

00147

1 1850. And once the white man arrived, the history really

2 changes.

3 Some of the worst massacres that ever happened to

4 the indigenous people of Turtle Island happened here in

5 Northwestern California. You can read it in Jack

6 Norton's book, "Genocide Northwestern California." Just

7 as an example, in February of 1860 on Indian Island in

8 Humboldt Bay over 70 women and children were massacred

9 when they were in a ceremony; and that same evening, there

10 were four more massacres at the same time, two at the

11 mouth of the -- the south spit of Humboldt Bay, another

12 one was at the mouth of Elk River, another at the mouth of

13 the Mad River.

14 I'm telling you this because you understand about

15 massacres, you understand about what happened to the

16 Plains Indians. And what happened to them was they

17 brought in a lot of people to kill the buffalo, because

18 that's what they survived on. It was part of their

19 traditional way of living. What we here in the

20 Northwestern California -- salmon fishing is a traditional

21 way of life. Only there is very few salmon now. And the

22 genocide is continuing. It hasn't stopped.

23 Salmon need water no more warmer than 61 degrees.

24 In Bear Creek this year, it's already into the seventies.

25 When you clearcut the streambed, there's no canopy for

00148

1 that salmon. It's another form of genocide.

2 We as indigenous people, we give thanks to the

3 trees, to the plants, to the water, to the air we breathe.

4 Mother Earth is continuously speaking to us. She's

5 reaffirming us. She's telling us to pay attention. And I

6 ask you: When was the last time you talked to the trees?

7 When was the last time you heard the salmon sing their

8 song?

9 Recently in the news you heard about Wayne Ford, the

10 serial killer. Well, let me tell you, he's not the only

11 serial killer with a saw in his hand in Humboldt County.

12 Charles Hurwitz is a serial killer of this earth. He

13 wants us to embrace death, to embrace the death of the

14 habitat of the endangered species. That is what this is

15 about. And we as an indigenous people have had enough.

16 And we want our life and our traditional way as salmon

17 people to continue, and it cannot with this HCP.

18 Please do not approve this. Think about our

19 children and our grandchildren and for several generations

20 ahead. Think about them, because this HCP is nothing more

21 than a license to kill endangered species and their

22 habitat, and that includes us.

23 Thank you for your time.

24 PRESIDING OFFICER: After Suzanne speaks, it will be

25 Ali Freedlund.

00149

1 Okay, Ali. Come to the front.

2 Suzanne?

3 MS. BEERS: Hi. My name is Suzanne Beers,

4 B-E-E-R-S, and I'd like to second what Agnes has said

5 about the Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield

6 Plan not being about conservation or sustainability, but

7 are indeed about the killing of threatened and endangered

8 species. This is exactly the -- by destroying their

9 habitat. And this is exactly the behavior that has placed

10 these species in their precarious position that they are

11 today.

12 The salmon need cool, low-sediment streams to

13 survive, and the marbled murrelet and spotted owl and the

14 30-plus other species need old-growth forests to reproduce

15 and live. This plan does not provide the protection that

16 these species need to survive, and these plans must be

17 rejected.

18 There is a catastrophe on the horizon, and it will

19 not be brought about by the preserving of these ancient

20 trees, but that the plan itself will be allowed to be cut

21 in the next 20 years or so. But by the systematic

22 destruction of our economic, social and ecological

23 environment by a lifestyle, population, and profits that

24 the earth cannot sustain. A new era is upon us that

25 global warming and climate change will not let us ignore.

00150

1 By continuing our exploitative behavior, we will bankrupt

2 the already failing systems.

3 I urge you of the Fish and Wildlife Service, the

4 Marine Fisheries Service and the Department of Forestry to

5 move into this new era and make the necessary changes for

6 conservation and for sustainability, with the courage and

7 leadership that we need, and to reject these plans

8 immediately.

9 Thank you.

10 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay. The court reporter needs

11 just a moment here.

12 She's also asked me -- she said that, you know, some

13 of the outbursts are causing some of the words to be

14 lost. So I would really ask you to refrain from the

15 outbursts, and it does take additional time that would be

16 left for some other speaker, so --

17 Okay. She's ready. Go ahead.

18 MS. FREEDLUND: Good afternoon. My name is Ali

19 Freedlund, F-R-E-E-D-L-U-N-D, and I am representing

20 myself, my family, my community in the lower Mattole

21 Valley. I have been a resident of Humboldt County for 20

22 years, a resident of the Mattole for 12. I moved here

23 because of the beauty and diversity of this place, and I

24 am here today to speak for it.

25 For the past two years, I have worked for the

00151

1 Mattole Restoration Council as an organizer and more

2 specifically to review Timber Harvest Plans. I am quite

3 aware of timber harvest in the Mattole. I am also

4 painfully aware of Pacific Lumber's continuous violations

5 and severe forest practices.

6 Despite current California Forest Practice Rules and

7 the Endangered Species Act, there have been few successes

8 in the protection of endangered, rare, sensitive and

9 threatened species on forestland. Further, there is a

10 profound lack of protected old-growth Douglas-fir habitat.

11 The PALCO ownership in the Mattole totals 18,000 acres.

12 All the forestland is Douglas fir, over 3,000 acres of

13 which is old-growth, the largest uncut, contiguous tract

14 remaining in the Mattole.

15 Historically, Douglas fir was not valued. Then,

16 after cutting down so much of the redwood forest, folks

17 began to argue for the protection of the redwoods. They

18 have been cutting Douglas fir ever since. In fact,

19 according to this HCP, they want to convert some of the

20 redwood acreage to Douglas fir because Douglas fir grows

21 faster and would rationalize their Sustained Yield Plan.

22 This is ridiculous.

23 However, an ancient Douglas-fir forest is just as

24 important to protect for species diversity as the

25 redwoods. Looking at the HCP's map of landslide activity

00152

1 on their holdings in the north fork of the Mattole, one

2 clearly sees hillsides prone to failure. Now, if you cut

3 on these slopes, even with helicopter yarding you are

4 increasing the likelihood of failure substantially.

5 One of the things that PALCO's HCP does not

6 scientifically take into consideration is the high

7 precipitation of the Mattole Valley -- up to 200 inches --

8 the earthquakes, and the difference between redwoods and

9 Douglas fir. When you harvest redwoods, the stumps sprout

10 wonderfully, often precluding the need to replant. When

11 you harvest Doug fir, it takes eight years before the

12 stump begins to rot. And when it is on a steep slope, it

13 will cause a landslide. The HCP has a disturbance index

14 of ten years of impact. However, in these scenarios the

15 impact of that logging might not happen for 12, 15 or 20

16 years down the line.

17 The other major problem with this scenario is

18 that because Douglas fir does not sprout, Pacific Lumber

19 prefers clearcut and then the application of herbicides

20 before reforestation. Suppose they use the herbicides as

21 directed, in a safe and efficient manner. They say that

22 herbicides will not impact water quality because they bind

23 to soil particles and not water. The slopes in the

24 Mattole often exceed 100 percent. If you have any

25 erosion, the herbicide goes with it, immediately impacting

00153

1 the water system and the plant and aquatic life dependent

2 on it.

3 You must not give them license to poison our river

4 and ruin our hillsides. The Mattole river cannot tolerate

5 it. Please use your position with integrity and deny the

6 Pacific Lumber Company's Habitat Conservation Plan and

7 Sustained Yield plan.

8 Thank you.

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

10 Angela Bonner?

11 Angela Bonner, you're the next speaker, and then

12 Bert Silva.

13 Is Bert Silva here?

14 Okay. Bert, come on up.

15 Angela, you're first. Your testimony, please.

16 MS. BONNER: My name's Angela Bonner. My friends

17 know me as "Sunshine." And I'm here to speak for the

18 trees.

19 I know that everyone here has come to you with the

20 hope that you will listen to them; and, for the most part,

21 I've been to all of these meetings, and I don't see much

22 listening going on.

23 You brothers are new.

24 You're not.

25 But I've seen you at slide meetings, and I have the

00154

1 hope that you will listen to all these people. Because we

2 all know that this is not right. And we know what's

3 leading this is money. And it's greed. And it has to do

4 with one big man at the top who can decide for all of us.

5 It's how the government is set up, that's how this whole

6 land is set up, and it's bullshit.

7 And we need to stand for what we believe in. And I

8 believe in my children's future, and I believe in our

9 future, and I believe that these redwoods have been here

10 for decades and eons, 4,000 years before Christ. You

11 know, they cannot be cut down. But they might be cut down

12 because of money and greed.

13 Now, I've been a farmer for most of my life, and I

14 know that you plant seeds. And I know that you keep

15 growing things. And you don't take it all away, you keep

16 some. You have to think of the animals. You have to

17 think of everything in life, not just the money, because

18 you can't feed people with money. You can't do anything

19 with money. It's not life.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Angela, I need your summation.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. BONNER: You have the choice today to do what's

23 right. And we know these -- I mean, I know all these

24 reasons. I have 800 things to say to you, but I can't say

25 them. Everyone else has said them. We know what's right.

00155

1 We know it. We know that none of these trees should be

2 cut down.

3 There is sustainable logging, just as my grandfather

4 and my grandmother could farm, and farm again the next

5 year, and they'd pass down land to their children, who

6 passed it down to me. We can sustain our Mother Earth,

7 just as our ancestors have done forever. She provides

8 everything for us. All we need to do is keep her alive.

9 Please, you can help save our mother, our Mother

10 Earth. Please.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Angela.

12 Berk Snow. After Bert Silva will be Berk Snow.

13 MR. SILVA: Hello. My name is Bert Silva, and I'm

14 here to stand for what I believe in. I was born in

15 Humboldt County. I was raised in Scotia. I've been

16 working for PL for 21 years. I'm going to digress from my

17 written statement because I have to answer a couple of

18 things that were said here today.

19 First of all, it seems like PL's being blamed for

20 almost all the decline in the fishing. I want to point

21 out the extent of the damage that's been done to our

22 fisheries from the Russian and Japanese trawlers that have

23 come through our area with dragnets scooping up every

24 single species of fish indiscriminately. I want to

25 address a situation concerning the diversion of the main

00156

1 flow of the Eel River down to Sonoma into Mendocino County

2 that caused the loss of the water flow and the rising of

3 the temperature of the Eel River. I want to talk about

4 the fact that when the water flow drops, the fish sit out

5 in front of the mouth of the Eel River and the sea lions

6 slaughter them wholesale. We have to look at these

7 things. It's not just the timber company's problem, here.

8 There's a lot of things. It's not "PL's the boogieman."

9 We're not responsible for acne; you know that? There's

10 problems out there, but it's not all PL's.

11 The other thing we need to look at, too, is the fact

12 that we're dealing with private-property rights. This

13 land is owned by PL. It's set aside to be harvested by

14 trees and we have the right to do so. This is -- this is

15 still a land of law, and we have to live by it. Or we

16 cease being a land of law and we cease having a society.

17 This is the point. Listen up. It's been eleven

18 long years since the war between radical environmentalism

19 and the timber industry has burst onto the scene up here.

20 It has been a war with many casualties. These casualties

21 include jobs, truth, the loss of private-property rights

22 and the loss of the use of our federal forest to provide

23 timber for the logging industry. We have endured with

24 quiet patience and hope as we've seen mill after mill shut

25 down by unnecessary logging restrictions. We've seen

00157

1 those whom we are close to and love have to sell their

2 homes, uproot their children from their school and pack

3 their belongings off to cities far away because of the

4 loss of timber jobs. We have watched in dismay as blatant

5 lies, half-truths and distortions have been put out

6 knowingly across the mass media in an attempt to discredit

7 PL and other logging companies in this area. We have seen

8 the rise -- the growing spectre of the rise of

9 environmentalism in the case of the Unabomber, the

10 arsonist attacks in Vail, Colorado, and closer to home --

11 closer to home, the unfortunate death of young Earth First

12 activist who died while trespassing on PL land during a

13 logging operation.

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Folks, let's give him an

15 opportunity to give his testimony.

16 MR. SILVA: If we continue to allow the radical

17 environmentalists to trample on our rights as Americans,

18 to disrupt the social and economic fabric of our homes and

19 communities, and to take what is not theirs through the

20 spineless dereliction of the duties of our elected

21 officials to uphold the law, then our America as we know

22 it will cease to exist.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Bert, I need your summation,

24 okay?

25 MR. SILVA: I urge you, sir, accept the Pacific

00158

1 Lumber's company HCP and SYP plans. These plans, when

2 implemented as written, will ensure the continued

3 protection of wildlife, the continuation of jobs, and our

4 way of life in Humboldt County. And they will put an end

5 to this war that has raged over so long and cost us so

6 much.

7 Thank you very much.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bert.

9 Berk? Berk Snow?

10 And then after Berk, it's Stephanie Gawboy.

11 Okay.

12 MR. SNOW: Hi. My name is Berk Snow.

13 See all these people here? These are the concerned

14 citizens and neighbors of Humboldt County. A lot of them

15 have been here 25 years, Some of them have been here half

16 a century, and they've been coming to meetings as long as

17 you've been having meetings, and they're going to keep

18 coming to meetings as long as you have meetings. These

19 folks are not going to go away. This is not something

20 that's going to be swept under the rug.

21 No matter how eloquent, you can't refute the fact

22 that the streams and our temperatures are rising on the

23 main stem of the Eel. It doesn't help at all that the

24 tributaries that come from PALCO lands are incredibly

25 warm. They're, like, 70 degrees. Well, all these

00159

1 70-degree streams are flowing into the main stem of the

2 Eel; obviously that's where the temperature's rising from.

3 Okay. I could refute a lot of that stuff, but I've

4 other stuff to say.

5 There's been a tripling of the cut going on here.

6 These folks sitting here have seen that. They're seen the

7 debris torrents that come down through Freshwater and

8 destroy an entire community's water supply. They've seen

9 the 40-acre landslide that comes down on Stafford and

10 ruined seven people's homes, drives them completely --

11 buries their homes.

12 I mean, you know, you can't refute this stuff. You

13 can't say this is caused by Russian trawlers. Come on.

14 Look at the big picture. It's underneath our feet. Okay.

15 They've also seen the rising temperatures and the heavy

16 siltation of Yager Creek and dozens and dozens of other

17 creeks. They've seen the destruction of the Bear Creek

18 watersheds that used to bear healthy fish populations.

19 Believe me, these fish populations -- there's been lot of

20 things contributing to the deterioration, but the

21 destruction of their home is the main thing.

22 The fish are practically gone. Can you believe it?

23 Just in our short time. Remember going out there and

24 seeing all those fish when we were just a few years

25 younger? It was amazing. It was truly amazing. They're

00160

1 basically gone.

2 Whoa. Hello? Okay.

3 The irreplaceable ancient primary forest that has

4 blanketed these hills since the end of the last ice age is

5 almost gone as well. Let's save what last little bit is

6 left. Talk about extremist -- those Earth Firsters, they

7 don't want to compromise at all. If there was one tree

8 left, they want to save the whole thing.

9 Okay. Within a minute here. I've got my wrap-up.

10 Just a few more paragraphs.

11 With the blood money that's gone into this, our

12 governmental systems have been corrupted to the point

13 where none of us hardly recognize them anymore. It's the

14 blood money doing it. It's driving this whole thing.

15 Anyway, these folks are not going to stand by and

16 let you lock up forest destruction for another 50 years.

17 It's not going to happen. These folks are going to keep

18 coming back and coming back and make sure that there is

19 something left for our grandchildren and the generations

20 to come who we are going to become. What do you think

21 happens to us when we turn to dust? Do you think we

22 disappear? I think we come back.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Berk.

24 Robert Clay?

25 After Stephanie speaks, it will be Robert Clay.

00161

1 Stephanie?

2 MS. GAWBOY: My name is Stephanie.

3 Can you hear me? Okay.

4 My name is Stephanie Gawboy; last name is spelled

5 G-A-W-B-O-Y. I am a resident of Humboldt County and

6 mother of one.

7 Earlier I heard a speaker express concern that the

8 environmentalists came up with no solutions, and I think

9 we have a lot of ideas for solutions. They might not be

10 easy, but I'd like to suggest some.

11 I feel that it is the responsibility of all of us,

12 PL workers included with people employed elsewhere, to

13 create the solutions. I will express my view of it.

14 When PL workers truly support the concept of

15 sustainable forestry techniques that are biologically

16 viable, they will see that they are in a bind, like most

17 of us. Most of us, PL workers, are not -- are somehow

18 dependent on corporations that severely degrade our

19 environment. We can change that. The idea is not to

20 condemn each other for this dependence, but to face it,

21 admit it and decisively think and work for a better way.

22 The influence of corporate and political interests

23 that work against sustainable jobs and environment must be

24 removed. The focus can then be on the reformation of the

25 logging industry to better support the needs of all the

00162

1 people and species within an ecosystem whose resources are

2 also responsibly used by the people.

3 People would not be pitted against one another, like

4 logger against environmentalist, if we were functioning in

5 a healthy manner. Most of us agree that we need to use

6 resources, and we do not need to abuse them to live well.

7 It is mismanagement that makes decisions and actions that

8 degrade our social functioning and environment. It is

9 time to dream up a transformed Pacific Lumber Company,

10 free of Maxxam or any other entity so unwise.

11 The first step to our commitment to a better way is

12 to ask you to oppose this HCP that is inadequate, for

13 reasons I am sure scientists will back and have backed,

14 and my eyes and ears, and even those can see and smell.

15 Maxxam cannot be trusted to live up to any agreement, even

16 the present inadequate proposal.

17 We people can free ourselves of economic systems

18 that degrade our environment or our lives. With

19 creativity, love, and respect for one another, we can find

20 a way to keep loggers employed and keep communities

21 functioning in a strong and healthy way, yet with a

22 different and healthier management. Imagine Pacific

23 Lumber Company owned by workers and managed in accordance

24 with such standards adopted by the forest ecosystem

25 management and assessment team, for example.

00163

1 There is an ideal that the majority of us can live

2 with peacefully. Let us work for it and readjust for

3 it. Some of the money now set aside for the Headwaters

4 Forest deal could be used to help reconstruct the logging

5 industry here in Humboldt County instead. The Headwaters

6 Forest can still be protected and the rest of PL land

7 could be made safe for the survival of all species, as

8 well as some logging on lands with slopes that are not too

9 steep and unstable.

10 Maxxam has been having loggers cut on ridiculously

11 steep slopes, by the way.

12 PRESIDING OFFICER: Stephanie, I need your

13 conclusion.

14 MS. GAWBOY: That must stop. Some money can be used

15 to employ PL workers to do restoration work. Others can

16 keep logging in a sustainable way.

17 I want you, our representatives, to help us live in

18 a good way by opposing Maxxam's HCP and SYP. Do a good

19 thing. We must patiently work for a better way and oppose

20 the present Headwaters Forest deal and HCP.

21 Thanks.

22 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Stephanie.

23 Robert Clay?

24 Robert Clay? Is Robert Clay here?

25 Okay, Robert. Let's go.

00164

1 We will be off the record until 20 minutes to three.

2 We'll now close the record.

3 (Recess taken.)

4 PRESIDING OFFICER: Robert Clay.

5 Gary Wilhelm.

6 If I call your names and you're not available to

7 speak, unfortunately you're going to have to lose your

8 turn and we'll have to keep going.

9 And, again, I think -- you know if you've already

10 given testimony in another session; so priority should be

11 given to those who have not made oral comments at any

12 previous hearing session.

13 I'm trying to get them to --

14 Okay. At the microphone. Are you Gary? Gary,

15 let's go with you.

16 Okay. We're back on the record.

17 Gary, your testimony, please. Speak loudly, Gary.

18 MR. WILHELM: I was wondering if I could give up my

19 place to someone else.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Well, Gary, is that someone else

21 here?

22 MR. WILHELM: Yes.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay. What's the name?

24 MR. WILHELM: Richard Gienger.

25 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay. Why don't you have

00165

1 Richard come up.

2 While Richard's coming --

3 Robert?

4 We'll take Robert Clay at this moment while Richard

5 is coming up.

6 Robert, your testimony please.

7 MR. CLAY: Thank you, sir.

8 Let's see. I'm going to speak extemporaneously

9 here. I'm Robert Clay, spelled like it sounds.

10 And one of the things I want to address here in

11 regard to this whole issue is that I think a lot of the

12 basis of what we're dealing with here, working with, and

13 the conflict that's going on here is a real fear-based

14 consciousness. I think that a lot of people are living in

15 fear in this area and this country as a whole. That's

16 what a lot of our culture's based on, is based on fear,

17 the fear of losing our livelihoods, our homes, not being

18 able to feed our children, our families.

19 And it's kind of ridiculous to me, because there's

20 so much abundance on this planet and in this life that we

21 live that we don't need to clearcut our forests or our

22 oceans or any of these things to provide those things for

23 our families. I guess a lot of what I'm saying -- I'm

24 speaking directly to the employees of Pacific Lumber and

25 other companies that are committing some of these

00166

1 environmental crimes. And they are crimes. It's the

2 reason why Pacific Lumber got their right to log revoked

3 today. I mean, they're crimes. They're committing

4 crimes. I'm not saying the people are criminals. I'm

5 saying that the operations are criminal. And I think the

6 granting of this HCP is a criminal act as well, because

7 it's going to allow these crimes to continue except it's

8 going to make them legal all of a sudden.

9 Personal property rights. I hear that invoked so

10 many times as a justification for crimes to be committed.

11 And I think after religion, I think probably personal --

12 more crimes have been committed in the name of personal

13 property rights than anything else in this world. And

14 talking -- not saying all religions are bad and not all

15 corporations are criminal, but when we start putting

16 personal property rights above the rights of the

17 communities, above the rights of that which sustains us as

18 human beings, the water we drink, the fish and animals

19 that we may eat, and the life that we have for all people,

20 the law of the commons, then I believe we are creating a

21 grave injustice to future generations.

22 I'm here to ask you gentlemen to take these things

23 into account in the decision that you make regarding this

24 Habitat Conservation Plan and to put the law of the

25 commons, of the common good for all people -- not just

00167

1 people that live in California or Humboldt County and may

2 have lived here for many, many generations -- but the

3 rights of all people on this planet and who live in this

4 country and the common heritage of the redwoods, which is

5 fast disappearing all over the land.

6 I mean, $400 million; why don't we just give

7 every employee of Pacific Lumber a hundred, two hundred

8 thousand dollars? How does that sound, guys? Why don't

9 we just give you all a couple hundred thousand dollars,

10 take five or ten years off. Go on vacation, maybe. Take

11 your family someplace nice.

12 And I'm not joking. I'm not saying that jokingly.

13 I'm saying seriously, we do this all the time. What we're

14 talking about is corporate welfare, and corporate welfare

15 subsidizes jobs at the cost of other people's lives. Your

16 jobs are going to be saved at the expense of every

17 taxpayer in this country, all right? So if we want to do

18 what's best for this country and for the people that live

19 in it, then maybe we need to review this whole

20 decision-making process and what is really going on here.

21 So I'm calling upon everyone and their best

22 patriotic sensibilities for what is good for this entire

23 country and the rights of all the people, the taxpayers,

24 including myself, to stand up against this Habitat

25 Conservation Plan -- excuse me -- all corporate welfare

00168

1 programs all over the country and see who is the true

2 opponent here. It's not me. It's not the

3 environmentalists or people that are concerned about the

4 forests; it's not you, because you guys are just doing

5 your job and trying to make a living.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Robert, I need your conclusion.

7 MR. CLAY: Thank you very much.

8 Basically, my final statement is that you protect

9 what you love, okay? You can't love something unless you

10 understand it. And if nothing else, these hearings, for

11 all I think the pretense I think they are for the most

12 part, are really a valuable opportunity for us to learn to

13 understand each other, because then we can communicate,

14 find the true opponent, and then empower each other.

15 You guys have the power to shut down these

16 operations. I don't, Earth First doesn't, no one else

17 does. You, the workers, have the power to shut down this

18 operation and get justice for yourselves and for your

19 children. And that's what I would like to see happen out

20 of all of this mess that's been going on, as this

21 gentleman referred to, this war that you've been fighting

22 for the last 11 years.

23 You know, we're not your enemy. You know, Maxxam

24 and those people taking advantage of you -- because they

25 are taking advantage of you and using you just like they

00169

1 may be using me and people like me as well. So just think

2 about it; and next time you drive by us, instead of

3 shouting "get a job" or "cut your hair," why don't you

4 pull over for a minute and come and talk to us and say

5 hello. And we'll try not to flip you off when we see you

6 driving by in your logger trucks. Deal --

7 MR. GIENGER: My name is Richard Gienger,

8 G-I-E-N-G-E-R. I've worked vocationally in the watershed

9 restoration since 1979, and I've also been involved in

10 forestry protection through various avenues.

11 The proposed HCP/SYP, uncomplimentarily, is really

12 a charade and a fraud. It's rife with violations of

13 state, federal and public-trust law. And one of the basic

14 focuses of that illegality are inadequate procedures based

15 on inadequate or materially misleading information. A bit

16 of this -- an example of this is in the SYP where a third-

17 rate bogus survey about the habitat structures in Bear

18 Creek is in the SYP. This has been brought up previously.

19 There's information about Sulphur Creek, for

20 instance, as an example, that must make NMFS cringe a

21 little bit, where you've got these unstable areas where

22 the procedures that are supposed to take place with the

23 HCP or in the preagreement were completely inadequate;

24 where you had misrepresentation of the slide conditions in

25 that watershed that supports coho. You had former harvest

00170

1 operations that added to landslide areas, much like Bear

2 Creek, that were not copped to, were not revealed.

3 There's inadequate information.

4 There's things that need to be acted on on an

5 emergency basis. Eighty-five percent of the sediment that

6 buried Bear Creek came from the 37 percent of the

7 watershed that was logged in the last 15 years. There

8 will be no protection and recovery of coho until there is

9 a process, and that's what this HCP lacks. You can deal

10 with details and all that stuff, maybe you might get it if

11 you put down a process. And the minimum process this HCP

12 needs is a peer and public review of three essential

13 phases. One, the evaluation and assessment. You're just

14 starting to get a hold of that. Two, a recovery plan.

15 Three, mandatory implementation and schedule of

16 appropriate measures. It's missing, missing, missing.

17 You need mandatory and standardized monitoring and

18 enforcement, adequate documentation for every step. You

19 know the mantra. You know the mantra. Reliance on the

20 Forest Practice Rules. The proposed HCP/SYP guarantees

21 jeopardy for coho and other species.

22 Dean Ludtke, this one here. Even though the rules

23 of the forestry require restoration, enhancement and

24 maintenance of beneficial uses of water, CDF continues to

25 claim they have neither the obligation nor authority to

00171

1 require recovery. And that's bogus.

2 And your reliance on the Board of Forestry rules for

3 implementation of the HCP is at the root of the inadequacy

4 of this document. You must consider other alternatives.

5 And one of the things you got to consider is a fisheries

6 and watersheds recovery alternative. It must be

7 incorporated or this is a failure. You have to have a

8 working model to really meet the future of this county.

9 And one alternative you need to examine closely, too, is

10 the Headwaters Forest stewardship plan. And why don't you

11 select that one?

12 Thank you.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

14 Michael Stowell. Michael Stowell.

15 Michael Stowell, and then Ranil Senanayake.

16 Michael Stowell, are you here?

17 And then after Michael it will be -- excuse me for

18 the pronunciation, but -- Ranil Senanayake?

19 MR. STOWELL: That's S-T-O-W-E-L-L.

20 In my mind, this deal is a message that has been

21 sent down to us from our elected representatives; and that

22 message is that if the public wants to protect the

23 environment, the public has to buy the environment. You

24 know, I don't like that message. To me that's totally

25 unacceptable. I also don't like $500 million of

00172

1 taxpayers' money to guarantee PL jobs. To me that's some

2 sort of weird welfare. I don't like it.

3 I'm from farm country. I'm a farmer at heart. I

4 grew up on a family farm, had family traditions, family

5 values. Twenty-five years ago I saw corporate farming

6 move in. I saw agencies and elected officials allow it

7 and encourage it. I saw family farms destroyed, and

8 parallel to that I saw family values destroyed.

9 Sixteen years ago I had to leave. I came out here

10 from Wisconsin. Unfortunately,I got into the fishing

11 industry. Sixteen years ago, the fishing industry was

12 still thriving here. 1962, the salmon landings in

13 Humboldt County were at 4,122,000 pounds. Twenty-five

14 years later, in 1987, the salmon landings were 4,336,000

15 pounds. In the last several years, there's been nothing.

16 Nothing.

17 Now, corporate timber can blame corporate fishing.

18 And they did some overfishing; we know that. We also know

19 that corporate timber has destroyed fish habitat down

20 through the years. The creeks and streams that used to

21 run into -- that we used to be able to see run into the

22 Humboldt Bay are all buried, many of them under 10, 15, 20

23 feet of mud. Now they're not streams anymore. They're

24 just water running under mud.

25 Being a farmer, I'm mostly concerned about the soil.

00173

1 When I look at a farm, whether it's mine or anyone else's,

2 the first thing I consider is the soil and how that's

3 being cared for. When you're clearcutting land, you're

4 not practicing forestry, you're practicing agriculture,

5 tree farming. And if we had farmers like that back in my

6 neighborhood, we would have run them out of town on a

7 rail.

8 They're destroying the soil base in this county.

9 And soil is the underpinning of all life, simple as that.

10 This HCP will not sustain the soil base that we all need

11 for continued habitation.

12 Thank you.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Michael.

14 Ranil.

15 After Ranil will be Andrew Carlson.

16 MR. SENANAYAKE: Thank you. My name is Ranil

17 Senanayake, spelled S-E-N-A-N-A-Y-A-K-E. I'm with the

18 Rain Forest Rescue International in Sri Lanka.

19 I am here because I have spent many years in the

20 redwoods as a student and as a researcher, chasing

21 salamanders and frogs and everything else. I love these

22 woods, and I came here many years after to look at them.

23 I'm amazed. I'm amazed at the loss in proportion of

24 old-growth and mature systems to young systems. And as an

25 ecologist who was trained in California, I'm amazed; and

00174

1 I'm saying are these the people who taught me? I mean,

2 hey, I've been to school here. These guys should know.

3 And I come back many years later and it's going to pieces.

4 Now, all that may be -- and you're discussing that

5 -- what I'd like to do is, since I'm up here, I'd like to

6 share something with you, something that I've found in my

7 travels. Because, you see, I'm also a consultant with the

8 World Bank, and I work for the United Nations system, and

9 I travel the world looking at forests and looking at

10 international processes.

11 One thing that has not been addressed when you

12 started looking at your plan here is the whole awareness

13 of the carbon industry that's developing. There is carbon

14 sequestration possibilities that have not been looked at

15 as an economic possibility. The temperate rainforest, of

16 which these are a part, are the second largest terrestrial

17 sink of carbon on this planet. If you have huge degraded

18 areas, you also have an incredible potential of earning

19 money to the local areas.

20 For most of the talks given today, it's obvious that

21 there is a concern that there must be an economy flowing

22 through to encourage that there is jobs, to ensure that

23 there is a future. This gives you an opportunity of

24 doing this effectively, because now people who are putting

25 out carbon dioxide into the atmosphere are willing to pay

00175

1 for sequestering and locking back again.

2 You, ladies and gentlemen, have one of the biggest

3 potentials in this forest. The state and the region

4 should recognize this. There will be your money to start

5 creating a whole new economy and a whole new way of

6 looking at things.

7 Finally, there is a relationship between the other

8 thing we're talking about, endangered species, which is my

9 speciality. "Biodiversity" is what we call it

10 internationally, and maturity, mature forest systems,

11 riparian systems are an example. You have the highest

12 carbon sink right by there. You also have the highest

13 biodiversity right by there. Attention should be given in

14 these plans for such relationships. And, in my opinion,

15 what you've got now as buffers, that is totally inadequate

16 to encompass this relationship.

17 I would also like to leave with a thought for

18 everybody, and it's something that came out of my

19 research, and I'd like people to think about it. And that

20 is, I find out -- and this is a World Bank report -- that

21 in all forests all over the planet, 99 percent of the

22 biodiversity of a forest is comprised of nontree species.

23 Trees account for less than one percent of the

24 biodiversity of the forest. Ladies and gentlemen, please,

25 please do not lose the forest for the trees.

00176

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Andrew Carlson? Andrew, are you

2 here?

3 Perry Phillips?

4 Perry Phillips, you're next.

5 And then John Severn will be after that.

6 MR. PHILLIPS: Greetings, everyone.

7 My name is Perry Phillips, P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S. I'm a

8 graduate student at Humboldt State University.

9 It's been a real interesting experience listening to

10 everyone. Certainly I've changed what I wanted to say

11 after hearing so many different people address so many

12 different issues. And I do want to speak directly to some

13 of the PALCO workers, and I want to start off by asking

14 some open questions here before I get into the details of

15 the HCP plan, which I do want to speak to.

16 First of all, what if PALCO employees owned and

17 managed PALCO instead of Charles Hurwitz; how would their

18 practices be different? What if PALCO employees, through

19 their ownership and control of PALCO, established a

20 working relationship with environmental scientists who

21 worked for universities, not for PALCO, and with working

22 with these scientists, who were independently associated

23 with universities, established a plan for a sustainable

24 forest practice? What if that were the situation?

25 I want to challenge the people who work for PALCO to

00177

1 think about this. You know what your interests are, but

2 you have to realize that they're being defined by Charles

3 Hurwitz for you. You need to define your own interests

4 for yourselves and to start to think for yourselves, not

5 as PALCO's pawns. You can actually control that

6 corporation; and, as someone else said here, you can shut

7 it down. You can change its practices and make them more

8 responsible and still have your jobs and your income. I

9 want that to make that really clear, because I feel that's

10 something that needs to be said.

11 I wanted to also say, what if government were to

12 play a responsible role in funding its watchdog

13 organizations so that environmental destruction was an

14 accident instead of the norm?

15 PRESIDING OFFICER: Perry, you've got one minute

16 left.

17 MR. PHILLIPS: I'm going to cut to the chase here on

18 the PALCO HCP. The data that they've provided us, as many

19 people have said, is bogus. I want to just point out one

20 section. On page 28, the projections, PALCO defines MBFN

21 as 200 -- basically, 200,000 board feet net per year,

22 which equals 1,000 board feet per acre per year. On the

23 next page you'll find Table 9, which outlines the

24 projection for inventory growth and harvest for decade for

25 the next 120 years. These figures presented in Table 9

00178

1 might be politely described as ludicrous.

2 You'll notice that inventory falls from a five

3 million MBFN to four and a half million MBFN in the first

4 decade. Now, their harvest plan says that they're only

5 going to take 233,000 MBFN while they project that there

6 will be a growth of 177,000 MBFN. That's about 50,000

7 MBFN, not 500,000 MBFN.

8 What is going on here? There's a little bit of a

9 discrepancy, okay, a bit of a discrepancy in the details

10 of this HCP. Is this something that everyone else

11 overlooked? How are they planning to lose almost a half a

12 million MBFN? What's going on? What scientist planned

13 this?

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Perry, I need your conclusion.

15 MR. PHILLIPS: Okay.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

17 MR. PHILLIPS: Skip to the end.

18 I hope that the California Department of Forestry

19 can do something to stop PALCO's relentless, death-driven

20 frenzy to destroy the forest in this region. PALCO may

21 own the land, but it's government's obligation to protect

22 the environment from corporate excesses. Their HCP is

23 full of nonsense and betrays their intention to cut trees

24 as fast as they possibly can.

25 Regulatory agencies should reject this HCP and

00179

1 request their own inspection of PALCO property to assess

2 inventory and habitat as the PALCO HCP says they will do.

3 They have offered you the opportunity to inspect their

4 inventory if you request to do so. I suggest you request

5 to do so.

6 Thank you.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Perry.

8 After John it will be Bernie Bush.

9 John, would you --

10 I've just got a notice from the sound people.

11 They're saying please ask participants to not move

12 microphones around to face audience. This is to avoid

13 feedback. So we'll refrain from that in the future, if we

14 can.

15 Okay.

16 MR. SEVERN: My name is John Severn, S-E-V-E-R-N.

17 I'd like to bring up a few points that have already

18 been brought up today but I don't think we can say it

19 enough: that Maxxam's records are really sad; racked up

20 almost 50 violations of the Forest Practice Act this year

21 and well over 250 violations in the last three years;

22 several lead criminal citations, and PL has been

23 convicted, put on probation, and then violated its

24 probation, only to be fined -- maybe even a tax write-off

25 for such a large corporation. Minimal $13,000 fine hardly

00180

1 makes up for the raping.

2 Recently a spotted owl nest site in Freshwater Creek

3 area, part of a 500-foot buffer zone, was clearcut and

4 covered up and then reported three weeks later.

5 Obviously, this is negligent and should disqualify them,

6 the Maxxam Corporation, from receiving an ITP and bar this

7 HCP, which shouldn't be granted by federal law.

8 Finally, Maxxam's license, pulled this morning,

9 should tell you something about what's really going on.

10 The SYP is criminally unsustainable and ensures

11 liquidation of all high-quality timber at alarming rates

12 for the next 20 years. Thinking about jobs: It was

13 heartfelt this morning hearing a lot of people locally

14 telling us what they're going through; but regardless of

15 this environmental movement, it's not an "us against

16 them." We all need to work together to create real

17 sustainable situations. They're going to be out of jobs

18 because we're out of timber. Pulp mills won't cut it.

19 Justifying the taking by planting genetically

20 engineered and chemically grown fir and redwood trees in

21 depleted topsoil offers no biodiversity and is a gamble

22 that these trees will even make it. Little is known of

23 the impact of what we're doing at the moment. It's

24 unprecedented. We've never had this kind of equipment.

25 We're looking at a scope of 40 years or so.

00181

1 In conclusion here, so many species to list and talk

2 about. Thank you to everybody who's put in some words.

3 I would like to point out on page 36 of this HCP/SYP

4 summary, Table 13, the marbled murrelet, it says potential

5 effects include 17- to 23-percent reduction of

6 potential or actual nesting habitat in the plan area and

7 possible disruption of nesting, and, under the worst-case

8 assumptions, possible killing of murrelet. They're

9 telling you right here they're going to kill them. What

10 does this mean? This is supposed to be protection and

11 conservation? This is sick.

12 And so many points should be raised about water

13 quality. I'd like to talk about the spraying of Garlon

14 and atrazine and diesel fuel in the burning of these are

15 hideous. It's also unknown how -- what's -- what's going

16 to be the result. You mentioned in the Mattole

17 a-hundred-percent saturation is flowing down into

18 neighboring properties. When you're looking at property

19 rights, I think corporate property rights come second to

20 us, the neighbors, the residents. We live here. We live

21 here and we love this place and we want it to stay. And

22 we're calling upon you because we feel the state hasn't

23 done its job, for whatever reasons. Here we are and we're

24 asking you to do it now, before it's too late. We have a

25 chance. And ask you to deny this HCP/SYP plan.

00182

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

3 Bernie Bush?

4 Then Cecilia Lanman.

5 Cecilia, you'll be after Bernie.

6 Again, if I call your name and you don't respond,

7 I'll just keep going to the others.

8 MR. BUSH: Good afternoon. My name is Bernie Bush.

9 That's B-U-S-H. I'm representing the Forest Resources

10 Council this afternoon. We are a nonprofit trade

11 association representing forest-product companies that own

12 and manage approximately one million acres of productive

13 forestland in California.

14 We are here to comment in support of the draft

15 EIS/EIR for the Headwaters Forest Acquisition, which we

16 believe represents a site-specific planning effort that is

17 specifically tailored to reflect an individual landowner's

18 land-management conditions and objectives.

19 Much of the criticism that's been directed towards

20 this planning effort seems to come from the viewpoint that

21 environmental standards that apply on public lands should

22 apply on private lands, as well. I would like to focus

23 some comments on that issue in particular.

24 When determining the measures necessary to protect

25 various natural resources, there is seldom adequate

00183

1 scientific date available to allow unambiguous decisions

2 to be made. Due to the gaps in knowledge, decisions are

3 made based on professional judgments with the best

4 available information. Because of this, it is not

5 possible to say with certainty what impacts different

6 actions may have on the resources in question. This means

7 that different conclusions can be reached using the same

8 information depending on the degree of certainty that one

9 wishes to have relative to protecting the resource of

10 interest.

11 For example, there are no experiments that have

12 directly documented the long-term impacts of various

13 land-management activities on salmonid populations, but

14 there have been substantial documentation on how different

15 physical and biological parameters of the aquatic system

16 are influenced by certain land-management activities.

17 Numerous studies have assessed the ability of

18 riparian buffers to protect aquatic systems from the

19 physical changes associated with land-management

20 activities involving canopy removal. These studies all

21 show the same pattern of rapid change to the physical

22 variable in question within approximately the first 100

23 feet from the edge of the opening, with decreasing change

24 as distance increases from the edge of the opening. The

25 point is that up to 90 percent of the benefit of the

00184

1 buffer is achieved within the first 100 feet of the

2 buffer, but it may take up to three times of that distance

3 until all measurable effects of the opening are removed.

4 The same pattern has been shown for recruitment of

5 large woody debris, where different studies have shown

6 that significant wood comes -- most significant wood comes

7 from the first 30 to 100 feet of the stream course.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Bernie, I need your conclusion,

9 okay?

10 Thank you.

11 MR. BUSH: Documents such as PacFish and the FEMAT

12 report were prepared for public lands with the objective

13 of having virtually no risk to salmonid stocks associated

14 with management activities on public lands. The

15 protection measures proposed were designed to protect

16 systems under worst-case scenarios, and it was stated in

17 these reports, and that in many site-specific systems,

18 lesser protection measures would achieve the same goals.

19 Using the guidelines made for these reports, individuals

20 are now charging that protection measures drafted under

21 the PALCO HCP are inadequate. However, as noted above,

22 they are using a mitigation approach based on zero risk of

23 impact on aquatic resources.

24 In order to have industries such as agriculture,

25 timber harvest, or most any other form of human activity,

00185

1 protection measures should be designed to mitigate impacts

2 and minimize the risks to other resources within the

3 limits that are feasible to maintain viable industries.

4 In conclusion, I will say that I believe PALCO's HCP

5 includes a thorough list of mitigation and an extensive

6 monitoring and adaptive management component. The

7 plan commits the company to conduct scientific studies on

8 their lands for the life of the HCP. These studies must

9 demonstrate that the HCP is working, that fish and

10 wildlife are being protected, and habitat conditions are

11 improving, or PALCO must meet the state and federal

12 biologists to determine how the HCP should be modified.

13 Thank you.

14 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Bernie.

15 Cecelia?

16 After Cecelia it will be Mark Hilovsky.

17 Cecelia?

18 MS. LANMAN: Hello. My name is Cecelia Lanman,

19 C-E-C-E-L-I-A L-A-N-M-A-N.

20 I've been a Humboldt County taxpayer and

21 forestland owner for 20 years. I raised my two daughters

22 as a resident of the Mattole River. I was inspired by my

23 neighbors who were already then struggling to save the

24 coho salmon in my watershed. I began my work with EPIC,

25 the Environmental Protection and Information Center in

00186

1 Garberville, 17 years ago to enforce the laws that are now

2 on the books that are meant to protect our environment and

3 to provide a sustainable yield of high-quality timber

4 products for future generations of Californians. That is

5 what it means by maximum sustained productivity.

6 And because of these laws, we were inspired to save

7 the Sinkyone. We found during that struggle that we had

8 to work to uphold the public trust because you folks, the

9 state and federal agencies, have consistently refused to

10 do so. So I'm here today to tell you to do your job,

11 because I'm tired of doing your job for you.

12 We have worked -- we have worked for 12 years to get

13 you to see the light about what it is that we need here in

14 terms of sustainability in our county, and, instead, the

15 agencies have spent almost two years negotiating behind

16 closed doors to cook up this deal with the Maxxam

17 Corporation, which has no legitimate authority to

18 negotiate the future of our forests, watersheds, and the

19 impact that this management scheme will have on our

20 communities. They don't own our wildlife, our fisheries;

21 they don't own our clean air; they don't own our clean

22 water; they don't own the very productivity of our soil or

23 the health and diversity of our forests. But we do. We,

24 the people of California, own these public-trust

25 resources, and we're here today to tell you that we want

00187

1 them protected.

2 I'm also here because I've heard that there are

3 going to be new land acquisitions involved in this PALCO

4 HCP, the Maxxam HCP. And it's coming to my watershed,

5 soon to be in our own back yards down in southern Humboldt

6 if the Maxxam corporation uses the funding from the state

7 and federal government to buy up other timberlands around

8 here. And I'm here to say that I don't want Maxxam in my

9 watershed, and I don't want Maxxam in Humboldt County any

10 longer either. I want to see the people of Humboldt

11 County take back these timber lands and manage them

12 sustainably: No more clearcutting, no more use of

13 herbicides. We're talking about time for a new regime.

14 We're less than a year and a half away from the new

15 millennia, and it's time for a change.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Cecilia, I need your conclusion.

17 MS. LANMAN: Okay. I also feel it is very

18 unfortunate that the folks that are here are looking at my

19 back, because I am a person. Maxxam Corporation is not a

20 person. And I would like to have the opportunity to sit

21 down and talk with the people that are in my community so

22 that I can share my concerns and I can share the expert

23 work that we have done over the years. And I can show the

24 laws that are meant to uphold our common public trust, and

25 that that is what we have been working on.

00188

1 People think that EPIC has stopped them from their

2 work. People think that EPIC has shut down mills. This

3 can't be further from the truth. The handful of lawsuits

4 that we've been able to file, against all odds, with --

5 holding bake sales, you know, in order to pay for costs

6 going into court -- we've only had eight times in twelve

7 years have we actually enjoined logging on these lands.

8 So we're not responsible for that.

9 In fact, the reason we're here today -- that we have

10 something to talk about is because citizens did take

11 action, citizens went into the woods, citizens went to the

12 media, citizens went to the legislature. Every time we

13 went to the legislature, when we went to the ballot box

14 with the initiative, we had money set aside for the

15 workers, we had money for restoration, we had money for

16 the recovery of the redwood-forest ecosystem included in

17 our plan.

18 In fact, the late Judy Bari inspired us all in 1993

19 by coming up with a worker restoration plan. I'm sorry

20 she isn't here today to present it to you. But in that

21 spirit, we are here to tell you: There are solutions. We

22 brought some of those up to you during scoping, and they

23 were touched on minimally in your alternatives.

24 But I'm here today to say no deal, no HCP. Scrap

25 it. Let's start over again. We have a lot more to talk

00189

1 about.

2 Thank you very much.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you.

4 Mike -- Mike Evenson?

5 Folks, again I can only say that you're taking time

6 away from some of the speakers in the future, so refrain

7 from too much of the outbursts, okay?

8 Let's go ahead.

9 MR. HILOVSKY: My name is Mark Hilovsky. I am a

10 general contractor in the San Francisco Bay Area. I use

11 timber products to build houses, and I use PALCO

12 sometimes. And I've been involved in this movement for

13 about three years now because I'm concerned about -- I

14 feel personally responsible for using the timber products

15 that the loggers are cutting.

16 And I've seen, you know, this whole thing come

17 about, this whole HCP thing when Diane Feinstein got

18 involved in it, and you know, you guys haven't really done

19 anything. I've seen this thing. I was in Oakland. This

20 thing, you know, this whole thing up here, looks like a

21 big dog-and-pony show to me. You guys, I really don't

22 think you have the power to deal with this issue. I think

23 that your strings are being pulled from higher above, from

24 Feinstein and the rest of them. I don't even think your

25 agencies have the power.

00190

1 So the other thing I wanted to talk about was the

2 union people that came here from Kaiser Aluminum up in

3 Oregon. I wanted to talk to the PALCO workers. You know,

4 you guys, Pacific Lumber, or -- well, Maxxam, is walking

5 all over your ass. They're screwing you, you know.

6 What's going to happen whenever you cut all the

7 trees down? What are you going to do? What are you guys

8 going to do? You guys need to organize. If you don't

9 organize -- you know, you need to organize your -- a labor

10 movement or something, because otherwise you guys are

11 going to be screwed.

12 Thank you very much.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Mark.

14 Michael Evenson? Mike, are you there?

15 Clint Bush? Clint, you'll be after Mike.

16 Mike, your testimony, please.

17 MR. EVENSON: My name is Michael Evenson,

18 E-V-E-N-S-O-N. And I'm a member of the California Coast

19 Province Advisory Committee. That is a federally

20 chartered advisory committee.

21 I came here from a lot of personal history, timber

22 falling back in the 60's. We didn't even think about

23 clearcutting then, although we're supposedly responsible

24 for all the problems that happened. In those days we left

25 trees that were 18 inches or smaller; and now we're told

00191

1 that's wrong, that we were high-grading, but we certainly

2 knew better than to clearcut.

3 And as I kept working in the woods I realized -- in

4 those days we didn't work in the winter, either. You

5 hunted and fished and picked huckleberry and did Christmas

6 trees and things like that. You didn't cut timber in the

7 woods. We knew better than that then. And we made our

8 living however we could in each season, and logging was

9 just one of our seasonal work.

10 Now, the way it's going and the way this HCP has it,

11 it's clearcut and it's work through the winter and doing

12 everything else. There's no time for fishing. And now

13 you don't even care about fish, because you know, well,

14 that clearcutting leads to landslides. It's been shown up

15 and down the coast. And when they say, "Oh, well. We had

16 a heavy storm. That's why it slid" -- but not that's not

17 the truth. That's not the truth. Those kind of storms

18 are normal.

19 You guys -- your agency and your agency -- are never

20 on the ground. How much ground time have you put into

21 this HCP? Damn little. You don't know what you're

22 talking about if you're going to go and say that this HCP

23 is going to work. You've got to put your people on the

24 ground. I have a lot of things I wanted to say, but I

25 guess I won't say them.

00192

1 A couple things, though, real quick. An RPF Beck

2 was saying that they were generating $170 million from the

3 timber operations; and if you're going to divide that by

4 1500 workers, that means that those 1500 workers generated

5 $113,333 per worker. If they're getting paid 30,000, that

6 means that there's 83,333 left for Hurwitz. That means

7 that for every three trees cut, one goes to keep the

8 economy of Humboldt going and two go to Charles Hurwitz.

9 But I don't want to beat up on Charles Hurwitz anymore.

10 He's been beat up a lot today and he doesn't seem to

11 answer.

12 But you're putting an HCP together that is a "one

13 size fits all." You all know it's wrong. Every one of

14 your scientists, every one of your -- all your field

15 people say "one size fits all" doesn't work; and yet

16 you're going along with this. I know in the Mattole,

17 because I got a place there where I ranch and I've been

18 losing land to sediment in the river, that these

19 landslides are not -- are not going to stop if you're

20 going to clearcut.

21 But you have a duty. You are to uphold the

22 Endangered Species Act. Not you, John, but you've got

23 other things to do. But in the Endangered Species Act,

24 it's the law of the land. We keep being told that the

25 Endangered Species Act is going to change; don't mess with

00193

1 things. It's the law of the land. People here are

2 law-abiding citizens trying to uphold the law, and you're

3 listening to liberal politicians in DC tell you how to

4 interpret the law. You got to stand up.

5 This process is supposed to put a feather in your

6 cap. But that feather is going to poke right through the

7 hat, and it's going to land in your head. It's going to

8 bother you the rest of your life. If you let things go

9 down and you set the bar so low that everything can go on

10 over it, it's not going to be something that you're going

11 to be able to live with, and we're going to remember, all

12 of us are. Ten years from now these guys won't have jobs.

13 They know that. But you're going to be living with this

14 and we're going to be living with the results.

15 Thank you.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Mike.

17 Ron Haselip?

18 Clint, your testimony, please.

19 MR. BUSH: My name is Clint Bush, B-U-S-H. Hi. I'm

20 here today to talk about PALCO's HCP plan. I believe

21 it provides a good plan to manage wildlife on private

22 timberlands.

23 Everybody seems to get a buffer zone or a

24 conservation area except the timber-industry worker. I

25 want a buffer zone. I want a buffer zone from Earth First

00194

1 invading our communities, our county. They come into our

2 town, they climb our flagpoles, they lock down our

3 offices, they defecate in our shrubbery and even in the

4 open and plain sight. We have to escort our children home

5 from school because they're scared to death of these

6 people.

7 My bank account wants a buffer zone. I've been

8 working 32 hours a week for months, and it's because of

9 Earth First. And right now it doesn't look any brighter,

10 but your passing this HCP can make it brighter. My family

11 needs a buffer zone. You try and tell your little kid you

12 can't afford the newest, hottest toy for Christmas.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Let him testify.

14 MR. BUSH: I want a buffer zone for my future. I

15 want to always have the knowledge that I have a job to go

16 to, and the HCP/SYP provides that. I want to know that

17 when I buy a house, I will be able to make that last

18 payment.

19 And even though these guys out here, they come into

20 our community -- I've lived here for 28 years, and I'm 28

21 years old. I've seen it. They come in here from HSU with

22 their ideals, their hippy flower-child attitudes; they get

23 brainwashed by these professors, these throwbacks from the

24 sixties who just brainwash them into thinking that there

25 ain't no trees left out here.

00195

1 So you should see that passing the HCP, the timber

2 industry gets his or her buffer zone. That HCP/SYP is our

3 buffer zone, so please remember to think about all

4 species, including the human one.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Frank Wilson?

7 Frank, you'll be after Ron.

8 Ron, your testimony, please.

9 MR. HASELIP: My name is Ron Haselip, spelled

10 H-A-S-E-L-I-P.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: A little closer to the

12 microphone, Ron.

13 MR. HASELIP: I work for Pacific Lumber Company. My

14 grandfather supported his family working in the timber

15 industry; my father worked in the timber industry until he

16 joined the service and fought with many other Americans

17 for our freedom in the Vietnam War.

18 I have been working in the timber industry for 13

19 years since I graduated from high school. I like being a

20 part of this industry and I enjoy living in this area. It

21 is a good area to raise my children, I believe. I also

22 enjoy sharing the multiuse land that is all around us with

23 my family and friends.

24 The Headwaters Agreement deserves our support

25 because it is set up to protect the animals, ancient

00196

1 forests, and the economic future of Humboldt County. The

2 Habitat Conservation Plan protects the six focus species

3 and many other plants and animals. The Sustained Yield

4 Plan is more than adequate and provides for regulations

5 throughout the future.

6 I'm not a scientist; I'm just a working person. But

7 I believe because of all the involvement of scientists

8 that this plan will protect the environment and save the

9 Headwaters and the other lands vital to preserve. We must

10 not miss this opportunity to protect the pristine forests.

11 Pacific Lumber Company is the largest private

12 employer in Humboldt County. The Pacific Lumber Company

13 generates more than $107 million of economic activity

14 yearly and provides indirectly for thousands of other

15 jobs. Please consider the economic impact this plan has

16 on me, my family and my community.

17 The intention of the plan is to encourage

18 cooperation between federal and state agencies and private

19 owners. It protects both species and private operations.

20 The Headwaters Agreement has the support of the U.S.

21 Congress and California legislature. We must encourage

22 the cooperation of environmental agencies and the timber

23 industry by supporting the Headwaters Agreement today. I

24 believe the Headwaters Agreement supports some fundamental

25 rights. An American has the right to purchase the use of

00197

1 property and use property in a responsible manner. I have

2 the right to support my family through any legal vocation

3 I choose. It is these fundamental rights of freedom that

4 my father fought for in the Vietnam War.

5 Support the Headwaters Agreement today and you

6 support the freedom of Americans in the future. You will

7 also support the continued cooperation between the timber

8 industry and the environmental agencies. Finally, support

9 the Headwaters Agreement today and you support the future

10 of our economy and continued preservation of our ancient

11 forests.

12 Thanks.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Ron.

14 Frank Wilson?

15 Before Frank speaks, Dennis Wood?

16 Dennis, you'll be after Frank.

17 Frank, your testimony, please.

18 MR WILSON: My name is Frank Wilson. I've lived in

19 Humboldt County all my life, and I've worked in the timber

20 industry for over 30 years. The main area that I'd like

21 to address today is the economic effects of the Headwaters

22 Agreement.

23 In the late 70's I witnessed the Redwood Park

24 expansion movement and saw the results of that. As

25 someone mentioned here, it might be a nice idea to take a

00198

1 100,000, $200,000 and give that to each employee. That's

2 basically what happened with Redwood Park expansion.

3 There was a lot of money given to a few people, and, as an

4 end result, those are the only ones that really benefitted

5 from it.

6 You want to see some far-reaching effects, drive

7 through the town of Orick or Blue Lake and see what

8 happened to those. There's probably a dozen-plus mills

9 that cease to exist. Those people had families that

10 worked there. And in fact, the Redwood National Parks

11 Visitor Center just outside of Orick is located on the

12 site of an extinct mill. I personally worked for a mill

13 that was a casualty of the Redwood Park expansion.

14 I came to work for the Pacific Lumber Company in

15 1983, and since that time I have watched their commitment

16 to the environment grow. They've expanded their office

17 facilities several times. That's to make space for more

18 foresters, biologists, geologists. We've built special

19 facilities for raising fish. We have a fish hatchery.

20 Those fish hatcheries are used not to just grow the

21 fish but to study those fish. There are trained

22 professionals that man those fisheries. Those fish are

23 later released in our local streams and rivers. There are

24 not too many agencies left that have fish hatcheries. The

25 one at Orick, which is government-funded, has had to shut

00199

1 down.

2 This agreement, as it stands, I believe is a good

3 idea. It's probably the best that you're going to find,

4 and it's the most comprehensive offered by private

5 industry. Some people think that we've probably gone too

6 far. We have buffers that nobody else has. We're asking

7 ourselves to be accountable to regulations, reviews that

8 other companies aren't accountable to.

9 If the issue is about saving the Headwaters and

10 protecting the ecosystem, then I say please consider this

11 battle over. The old-growth trees are saved, the ancient

12 groves are protected, the endangered species are looked

13 after, the streams with the fish in them are protected,

14 and there are provisions to support our local economy.

15 In closing, if protesting was a taxable industry,

16 then Humboldt County would be in great financial shape.

17 Unfortunately, this is not the case. The taxes needed to

18 support local, state and federal agencies and programs are

19 supplied by profitable, functioning businesses and

20 industries.

21 Thank you.

22 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Frank.

23 After Dennis Wood, it will be Rex Bohn.

24 Rex, come up to the front.

25 MR. WOOD: Thank you.

00200

1 My name is Dennis Wood. That's spelled W-O-O-D.

2 And I'm a director for the North Coast Railroad Authority

3 located here in Eureka. The Authority oversees the

4 operation of the right of way of the Northwestern Pacific

5 Railroad from Arcata to Shellville --

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay, Dennis. Just a little bit

7 slower.

8 MR. WOOD: I served on the board -- I have served on

9 the board for over five years in various capacities,

10 including chairman. I'm also a lifelong resident of the

11 North Coast and a fifth-generation descendant of a pioneer

12 family. I have also served on the city council of

13 Fortuna, and mayor for two years. I have been involved in

14 many other boards and commissions in our area.

15 I feel I'm qualified to speak on the proposed HCP as

16 it relates to the economic issues and such impacts it may

17 have on the Northwestern Pacific Railroad.

18 I would also like to add that within the past year

19 our board also took a position in support of the

20 Headwaters Agreement. In my position as director on the

21 Authority Board, it is very clear that the timber industry

22 is the most single-important industry that the railroad

23 serves. This industry has been the largest segment of its

24 business and has kept the railroad in operation for over

25 85 years. Pacific Lumber is currently the largest shipper

00201

1 on the line, which is only operating south of Willits.

2 Historical numbers show -- in recent history, that

3 is -- show that Pacific Lumber annually represented over

4 25 to 30 percent, or almost one-third of the railroad's

5 business. Given the very tenuous position that the

6 railroad is currently in -- we are awaiting funds from

7 state and federal agencies to repair the line -- it is of

8 the utmost importance that additional timber harvesting

9 restrictions on one of the railroad's largest customers

10 not be allowed to occur.

11 Additional harvesting restrictions over those that

12 are presented in the HCP/SYP will reduce lumber production

13 from Pacific Lumber sawmills, which will lead to less

14 business for the railroad and will cause additional

15 financial problems to the Northwestern Pacific Railroad

16 and very well may lead to final abandonment of the line.

17 For the sake of the railroad, for its customers and

18 the many people of this region who may someday realize the

19 full potential that the railroad has to offer, that is,

20 you know, full development of the Port of Humboldt, the

21 restoration of tourist train passenger service from

22 Willits to Eureka, and of course the successful

23 fulfillment of the contract of transporting solid waste

24 out of Humboldt County, I believe a viable, operating

25 railroad is needed in order for Humboldt County to have a

00202

1 strong economic base. Please do not place additional

2 restrictions on one of its largest customers, that is,

3 Pacific Lumber. Do not take additional timberland out of

4 timber production. Please approve the HCP/SYP that has

5 been submitted by Pacific Lumber, which is based on sound

6 science, so that it will preserve economic vitality of the

7 Pacific Lumber Company and protect a sustainable job base

8 on the North Coast, including the Northwestern Pacific

9 Railroad.

10 Thank you.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Dennis.

12 After Rex Bohn, it will be Gary Ogden.

13 MR. BOHN: Good afternoon. My name's Rex Bohn,

14 B-O-H-N. I think you're doing your job. I appreciate you

15 guys being here today.

16 Working for a company that's celebrating its

17 fiftieth year in business, we've enjoyed a partnership

18 with Pacific Lumber or its contractors in all the years

19 that we've been in business. There are factions that

20 would like to see Maxxam out of Humboldt County. It's

21 usually on the popular bumper sticker usually placed on

22 the "U.S. Out of Humboldt County" sticker.

23 With your approval of the HCP\SYP plan you'll put a

24 closure to the constant bickering, unclear interpretation

25 of rules, and the overhanging threat of what agency will

00203

1 decide what this time.

2 Capital expenditures for companies involved with

3 Pacific Lumber are important, but more important are the

4 families and their futures involved. It's hard enough to

5 raise a family in these tough times, economic and social,

6 without the uncertainty of jobs in the future looming.

7 I don't believe you would have this plan in front of

8 you if it wasn't studied, turned upside down, inside out.

9 I've heard, "My scientific view's better than your

10 scientific view; my ideas are better than your ideas."

11 You have a chance to make a change in front of you.

12 Support this agreement and let us get on with our lives in

13 Humboldt County.

14 Thank you.

15 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Rex.

16 Jeff Ringwald will be speaking after Gary.

17 Gary, your testimony, please.

18 MR. OGDEN: My name is Gary Ogden, O-G-D-E-N.

19 I'm a contract administrator. I'm involved in

20 logging and compliance for the Pacific Lumber Company.

21 I've been with Pacific Lumber Company for 20 years. I'm

22 the old and the new PL. We are a company that is evolving

23 into better stewards of the land and the resources we own

24 by adapting to stricter regulations in addressing the

25 concerns of the state and federal agencies.

00204

1 My field responsibilities are taking an active role

2 in implementing and overseeing the Timber Harvest Plans

3 for the company, harvesting forest products, road

4 building, and ensuring streams are adequately protected by

5 the buffer zones that they have been given.

6 I have had the unique opportunity this year to

7 operate on a few Timber Harvest Plans that were amended to

8 the PPAP, the Prepermit Application Agreement. Many of

9 the provisions of the HCP and SYP are being implemented in

10 the THP's today.

11 I have seen what those Class II stream buffer zones

12 look like, which is the aquatic provisions in the HCP and

13 SYP. A hundred feet of no-cut buffer zones were left. We

14 didn't take any of the trees under this new agreement. In

15 the past, we would have selectively logged this zone and

16 would have had plenty of shade canopy left intact after

17 the operation. These levels of protection go far above

18 and beyond what the current California Department of

19 Forestry and Fire Protection rules require.

20 I've been involved in road building on PL land, and

21 our roads are built to higher standards than they were in

22 the past. And I'm involved with inspecting the existing

23 roads to identify problems so they can be corrected before

24 the winter period. Each decade we are committed to

25 stormproofing 500 miles of existing roads. These

00205

1 stormproofing standards are designed to significantly

2 reduce the amount of sediment getting into streams. I've

3 seen this stormproofing take place, and it's no small

4 task. There is a significant cost in meeting these

5 requirements. We have had 19 excavators that we have

6 hired this past year working on building roads and doing

7 this stormproofing work.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion, Gary.

9 MR. OGDEN: Okay. This plan -- HCP/SYP is based on

10 sound science, and I'm convinced of this because of the

11 extensive involvement of scientists and experts that put

12 this plan together, and myself being a part of

13 implementing the PPAP agreement on the ground. It's good

14 and an environmentally sound program.

15 By adopting the SYP you will assure us of

16 maintaining high-paying timber jobs far into the future.

17 The SYP is good for this community. Timber is very

18 important to the North Coast economy by providing a local

19 tax base. You should consider the environmental merits of

20 this plan, but you also must consider the social and

21 economic effects.

22 Thank you.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Gary.

24 John Cook? John Cook will be after Jeff.

25 Jeff, your testimony, please.

00206

1 MR. RINGWALD: Good afternoon. My name is Jeff

2 Ringwald, R-I-N-G-W-A-L-D.

3 I'm a 35-year resident of Humboldt County and a

4 21-year employee with Pacific Lumber Company. For the

5 past ten years I've been the accident-prevention director

6 for the Pacific Lumber Company.

7 I'm here today to speak in favor of the Headwaters

8 Agreement and, in particular, the Habitat Conservation

9 Plan, better known as HCP, and the Sustained Yield Plan,

10 SYP. I will not be addressing the intricacies of these

11 plans because we have some of the best educated and most

12 qualified people anywhere that will do this for our

13 company. What I would like to address is why the HCP/SYP

14 is the right thing for wildlife, our company and the

15 future of the community.

16 When I look at all that is wrong with the world

17 today, it makes me appreciate how privileged I am to live

18 in Humboldt County and to work for a company that truly

19 cares for its people in the community that it's a part of.

20 To work for a company that has been in business for more

21 than half the history of our nation, that has been praised

22 throughout this history for being an environmental model

23 of the timber industry, has been a dream come true for me.

24 How did my company come to be recognized as an

25 environmental model? Well, it did so by being

00207

1 progressive. Progressive to the extent that it has always

2 done what is right for the future. For years, when most

3 timber companies never gave a thought to the future,

4 Pacific Lumber was planning for the future. It donated or

5 sold its most beautiful redwood and Douglas fir groves so

6 that future generations, like yourselves, would be able to

7 enjoy the beauty, splendor and magnificence of the forest.

8 It did this so people could see firsthand life in

9 the forest. It did this so there would always be a forest

10 for life. I know for myself and my family, going places

11 like Fern Canyon, Prairie Creek and the many popular spots

12 along the Avenue of the Giants, has been some of the best

13 times that I will remember. And it's all because my

14 company remembered to never forget about the future.

15 My company also conserved its resources for the

16 future. It planned ahead and was able to sustain itself

17 when most companies' harvesting rates surpassed their

18 future supplies. It did the right thing, it cared about

19 tomorrow, and it always has cared about tomorrow --

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jeff, I need your conclusion,

21 okay?

22 MR. RINGWALD: -- as it is caring about what's going

23 on right now.

24 This is why my company has agreed to sell the last

25 of its virgin redwood forestland, so that the life of the

00208

1 forestland can be preserved and protected forever. And

2 this is why my company has agreed to the most

3 comprehensive requirements ever in the history of our

4 nation to be placed on it as a private timber company.

5 This is so that the future can be protected and preserved,

6 and this is why the Habitat Conservation Plan and

7 Sustained Yield Plan are what's right for the community,

8 for our company and the future of Humboldt County.

9 Please do not be deceived by worthless arguments,

10 but rather focus on the truth that comes from an honest

11 effort to do what is right.

12 Thank you.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jeff.

14 After John speaks, Mike Bonnikson.

15 John Cook, your testimony, please.

16 And then Mike Bonnikson.

17 MR. COOK: My name is John Cook. I reside in

18 Hydesville. I'm a 20-year resident of Humboldt County and

19 a small business owner. Eight members in my family, I own

20 a wholesale supply business and a small retail business.

21 Together, my wife and I realize the important role that

22 Pacific Lumber plays in our North Coast economy.

23 I would like to express my support and ask for your

24 support for the Headwaters Agreement as proposed by and

25 ratified by our federal and state agencies. Also, my

00209

1 support for the Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained

2 Yield Plans proposed for the Pacific Lumber Company.

3 These plans are certainly a win-win situation for all of

4 us. These are the most far-reaching plans, unprecedented

5 in the industry, with provisions to protect all wildlife,

6 including endangered species, streams, fisheries and soil

7 integrity.

8 I urge you to stand behind these plans that

9 scientists, Pacific Lumber Company and all the regulatory

10 agencies involved, the United States Congress, and the

11 State of California have worked so hard for. This is a

12 fair and equitable agreement for all, including the

13 threatened and endangered species. Without your support,

14 I fear that my family and I will be the endangered ones.

15 Gentlemen, please realize the social and economic

16 impact your decision will have.

17 Thank you.

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, John.

19 Mike?

20 After Mike will be Carl Rome.

21 Mike, we can't hear you. Speak closer there, to the

22 microphone.

23 MR. BONNIKSON: I'm a Pacific Lumber Company

24 employee of 17 years. My family has lived in Humboldt

25 County for four generations.

00210

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Mike, even closer. I'm sorry.

2 Get closer to the microphone.

3 MR. BONNIKSON: Okay. I have the good fortune of

4 having a great uncle of 92 years, a lifetime resident of

5 Humboldt County and a Pacific Lumber Company employee

6 for more than 40 years. My father worked for the Pacific

7 Lumber Company and died in a mill accident. In that, my

8 roots and ties with Pacific Lumber Company go very deep.

9 I'm a mill worker, not a scientist. I feel as

10 though we are trying to compromise very well. I hope that

11 you will try to improve our plan and have -- for the good

12 of all and give us back some stability in the life that we

13 lead here.

14 Thank you, Mike.

15 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Mike.

16 Carl, are you here?

17 Okay. Then I need Susan Moloney.

18 Okay. Carl?

19 MR. ROME: Thank you.

20 I ask you to approve the Habitat Conservation Plan,

21 and I ask you not to blame the demise of the dinosaurs or

22 all of the pregnancies in this gathering of Pacific Lumber

23 Company.

24 My name is Carl, spelled with a C, middle initial D,

25 Rome, R-O-M-E, and here's another unpublished novel. I've

00211

1 worked for Pacific Lumber Company for 38 years, seen a lot

2 of changes, good and bad. In the past -- there was a lot

3 of this, and I believe you said that I could submit my

4 comments, so I won't read all of them here.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Carl.

6 MR. ROME: I'll cut it short and remind the people

7 that there's was a comment made, that quote by Thomas

8 Jefferson, and a quote by Abraham Lincoln, about the

9 wrongness, I believe, of corporations. Well, I have a

10 quote that I would like to read. And it says:

11 "The forests must -- must be and will be not only

12 preserved but used on the experience of all

13 civilized citizens and countries that have faced and

14 solved the question, shows that the forests, like

15 perennial fountains, may be made to yield a sure

16 harvest of timber, while at the same time all their

17 far-reaching beneficent uses may be maintained

18 unimpaired."

19 John Muir, founder, Sierra Club, 1895.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Carl.

22 Chris, Chris Skyhawk, will be after Susan.

23 Susan, your testimony, please.

24 MS. MOLONEY: Yes. Hi. I just want to touch a

25 little bit about history, and I want to let everyone know

00212

1 that throughout history, people have been wrong in

2 many large fashions. At one point we thought it was okay

3 to buy and sell others as property. People once thought

4 it was okay to deny women the right to vote. People once

5 thought it was okay to deny people of a different color

6 the right to sit and drink at the same places as those

7 in power. And at one point in the future, we'll know that

8 it is wrong to cut ancient trees; that it is wrong to

9 clearcut; it is wrong to cut on steep, unstable slopes.

10 Corporations and biology don't mix. The driving

11 force of this HCP is the almighty dollar. We can't let

12 that happen. One day we will see that we are wrong right

13 now in what we are doing and the path that we are taking;

14 and instead of pepper-spraying of people who are trying to

15 preserve the very lungs of the planet, we'll be making

16 saints out of them.

17 My heart goes out to the Pacific Lumber employees

18 who are going to have to make some huge changes, and those

19 changes are going to come whether we have ancient forests

20 left or whether we don't; and we can make these changes

21 easier on all of us if we work together, if we say Maxxam

22 as a corporation is not looking after our best interests,

23 and get them the heck out of this county. We have risen

24 to greater challenges before.

25 If you think that Charles Hurwitz gives a hoot about

00213

1 you, I dare you to try to unionize. I dare you to try to

2 unionize. Unionize PALCO workers, please. It's going to

3 save you and it's going to save our forests. And we know

4 that you know what's going on out there is wrong; and the

5 sooner you say that, the better off we're all going to be.

6 PRESIDING OFFICER: We have a microphone problem.

7 Go ahead.

8 MS. MOLONEY: Okay. Here I am.

9 We don't recognize that this one man can own these

10 forests. In fact, I'm going to try something a little

11 different here. I'm going to try to sing a song, and it

12 goes like this:

13 "This land is your land, this land is my land,

14 From California to the New York Island,

15 From the redwood forests,

16 To the Gulf Stream waters,

17 This land was made for you and me.

18 This land is your land, this land is my land,

19 From California to the New York island,

20 From the redwoods forests,

21 To the Gulf Stream waters,

22 This land was made for you and me."

23 This land is all of ours.

24 This land doesn't just belong to Charles Hurwitz,

25 people. We've got to save it for all of us.

00214

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Susan.

3 Chris?

4 MR. SKYHAWK: Good day. My name is Chris Skyhawk.

5 I live in Mendocino County on the Mendocino coast. I'm

6 from Albion.

7 I'm here to speak against the HCP as it's currently

8 written. Actually, I'm here to speak to the HCP concept,

9 period.

10 For those who think that PALCO gives a hoot about

11 workers, I just have two words. It's called "pension

12 fund." It was ripped off once; it will be ripped off

13 again. I don't think that Hurwitz cares really about

14 Humboldt County. But I don't hold Hurwitz just

15 responsible. As I said, I'm from Mendocino County. I

16 hold the corporate timber responsible; and, I'm sorry, Mr.

17 Ludtke, I hold CDF responsible, also.

18 Where I'm from, five years ago we tried to put local

19 rules through in Mendocino County, which we eventually

20 did. The Board of Forestry said, "Well, we're not going

21 to accept your local rules. We're going to do SYP's in

22 lieu of that."

23 Five years ago I went to hearings. We had Georgia

24 Pacific employees, we had Louisiana Pacific employees, who

25 did so much to -- as our predictions said they were going

00215

1 to, adhering, saying, "Don't pass those rules. We'll lose

2 our jobs. We'll lose our jobs." Timber employment in my

3 county where I am from in that time has decreased by half.

4 These corporations don't care about us. I'm against

5 corporate forestry in every facet and every possible

6 manifestation that it comes forth in. Towards that end --

7 I don't really know what to say. It makes me sad to

8 have to be here today. I've been -- I work in a whole lot

9 of professions, including small timber stuff. I do work

10 with micromills. I also work with Earth First, so I guess

11 that makes me a radical environmentalist. I've blockaded

12 loggers from things before. But I'll tell you what: We

13 get into conversation, we agree about 85, 90 percent of

14 the stuff. Please don't let this travesty go through.

15 I'm going to sum up before my beeper goes.

16 If there's $500 million sitting around, if Diane

17 Feinstein thinks that we taxpayers should give to Charles

18 Hurwitz, then I have a counterproposal: I want to see

19 $500 million given to the North Coast counties -- Del

20 Norte, Humboldt, Mendocino -- to fix the damage, for us to

21 define priorities. Let us decide. Please take the

22 corporations out of the middle of this equation so that we

23 can sit down as a community, we can argue it out; but it

24 will be us. It will be us. I ask you to do that today.

25 Thank you.

00216

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Chris.

2 It's now four o'clock, and that concludes our

3 afternoon session.

4 And we're now going to go off the record. We're

5 going to reopen again for the six o'clock session for

6 registration at five o'clock.

7 Thank you very much.

8 / / /

9 [Afternoon session concluded.]

10 [Go to next page.]

00217

1 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Good evening. Welcome to this

2 public hearing. The United States Fish and Wildlife

3 Service, National Marine Fisheries Service, California

4 State Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, and

5 California Department of Fish and Game are conducting a

6 joint process for taking comments on Environmental Impact

7 Statement/Environmental Impact Report for the Headwaters

8 Forest Acquisition and the Pacific Lumber's Company's

9 Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan.

10 My name is Richard DeClerck, and I'm an attorney

11 with the United States Department of the Interior, Office

12 of the Solicitor. I will be serving as the presiding

13 official for this hearing.

14 Here with me on the podium are the following agency

15 representatives: I have John Ingram, supervisor,

16 Klamath/Central Pacific Coast Fish and Wildlife Service;

17 I've got Dean Ludtke, California Department of Forestry

18 and Fire Protection; and Joe Blum, National Marine

19 Fisheries Service.

20 You will find an information table at the back of

21 this room with written materials about the proposed action

22 in these documents.

23 At this point I would like to introduce John

24 Ingram and Dean Ludtke to give comments.

25 MR. INGRAM: Good evening. My name is John

00218

1 Ingram. I'm from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

2 The federal Endangered Species Act has established

3 protections for species listed as threatened and

4 endangered and provides for authorization of certain

5 impacts where such impacts comply with criteria

6 established by the Act.

7 The most fundamental protection provided by the Act

8 is the prohibition against take of species listed under

9 the Act. "Take" includes actions that would kill, harass

10 or harm listed species. "Incidental take" is defined as

11 take that is incidental to, and not the purpose of, the

12 carrying out of an otherwise lawful activity.

13 When incidental take may result from the actions of

14 state or local governments, corporations or private

15 individuals, Section 10 of the Endangered Species Act

16 directs the secretaries of the Department of the Interior

17 and the Department of Commerce to issue permits for

18 incidental take when certain conditions are met by the

19 applicant. Those conditions are described in detail in

20 the Act.

21 Most importantly, the applicant must submit a

22 Habitat Conservation Plan, or HCP. Among other things,

23 the HCP must describe the impact of the taking and the

24 steps the applicant will take to minimize and mitigate

25 such impacts. The standards for the agencies' evaluation

00219

1 of the HCP are also described in the Act. Most

2 importantly, the agencies must find that the taking will

3 not appreciably reduce the likelihood of survival and

4 recovery of the species in the wild. If the statutory

5 conditions are met, the incidental take permit will be

6 issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and National

7 Marine Fisheries Service.

8 The Pacific Lumber Company has prepared an HCP and

9 submitted an application for an incidental take permit for

10 several species. Also, the United States Congress and the

11 California legislature have approved appropriations for

12 acquisition of portions of the Pacific Lumber Company's

13 property if the HCP is approved.

14 Because the issuance of an incidental take permit is

15 a federal action, the process is subject to review under

16 the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA. The State

17 of California is also undertaking environmental review

18 under the California Environmental Quality Act, or CEQA.

19 Therefore, the state and federal agencies have entered

20 into an agreement to prepare a single environmental

21 document called a joint EIR/EIS.

22 Impacts considered under NEPA and CEQA are not

23 limited to the impacts on listed species, but include all

24 impacts on the action affecting the human environment. In

25 addition to evaluation of the effects of implementation

00220

1 of the Habitat Conservation Plan, the joint EIR/EIS will

2 cover the impacts of the proposed acquisition.

3 This public meeting is conducted as part of the

4 public comment period on the EIR/EIS. The public comment

5 period will close on November 16th, 1998. Because the

6 Congressional appropriation includes the deadline of March

7 1st, 1999, for completion of the entire process, the

8 public comment period will not be extended beyond November

9 16th.

10 On behalf of the Fish and Wildlife Service and the

11 National Marine Fisheries Service, I thank you for your

12 effort -- the effort you have made to attend this meeting

13 and also thank you in advance for your comments.

14 Now we will hear some introductory remarks from the

15 representative of the State of California.

16 MR. LUDTKE: Hello. I'm Dean Ludtke with the

17 California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection. I

18 have a statement I would like to read into the record.

19 The California Department of Forestry and Fire

20 Protection is the state lead agency under the California

21 Environmental Quality Act for this project. The

22 Department will use the Environmental Impact Report to

23 evaluate environmental impacts to the Sustained Yield Plan

24 submitted by the Pacific Lumber Company. The Department

25 will use the EIR to identify potentially significant

00221

1 adverse impacts and to determine whether the Sustained

2 Yield Plan needs to be modified with alternatives or

3 feasible mitigation measures to avoid or mitigate those

4 impacts. The EIR is a joint document with the federal

5 Environmental Impact Statement. Sustained Yield Plans, or

6 SYP's for short, are one of the mechanisms that timberland

7 owners can use to meet the state's requirement for

8 maintaining maximum sustained production of high-quality

9 timber products while giving consideration to values

10 relating to watershed, fisheries and wildlife.

11 SYP's must include projections of timber growth and

12 harvesting over at least a 100-year planning horizon, a

13 fish and wildlife assessment, and a watershed assessment.

14 Subsequent Timber Harvesting Plans may rely on the

15 approved SYP to the extent that issues are addressed in

16 it. Following approval, the SYP is in force for a period

17 of no more than ten years.

18 The Department does not normally prepare an EIR for

19 Sustained Yield Plans, and usually uses its CEQA

20 Functional Equivalency under the Forest Practice Act.

21 However, in this case it was judged to be more efficient

22 to prepare an EIR as a joint document with the federal

23 EIS.

24 That concludes my statement.

25 Thank you.

00222

1 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, gentlemen.

2 As stated, public comments on these documents will

3 be accepted until November 16th, 1998. After review and

4 consideration of the comments and all other information

5 gathered during the comment period, the agencies will

6 prepare a final Environmental Impact Statement/

7 Environmental Impact Report.

8 The purpose of this hearing to receive your oral

9 comments on the proposals. Information you offer on all

10 aspects of these proposals are important and will be

11 carefully considered. Because of the importance of your

12 comments, it's necessary we follow certain procedures here

13 this evening. If you want to present comments at the

14 hearing, you must have registered at the table at the back

15 of this room. You will be called to present your comments

16 at one of the microphones here at the front. Please begin

17 your presentation by stating your full name, spell it for

18 accuracy of the record, and indicate what organization you

19 represent, if any.

20 In order to accept the maximum number of comments

21 into the record, I will call two names at a time, the next

22 speaker to come to a microphone and the following speaker

23 to come to the front. Please do so to save time.

24 The sound man has informed me that movement of these

25 microphones around to face the audience causes feedback

00223

1 and disrupts the taking of the testimony, so please

2 refrain from moving the microphones.

3 Because of the number of people who wish to comment

4 and limited time available, we must ask thank you limit

5 your presentation to two minutes or less than three

6 minutes. At the end of two minutes, I will be either be

7 commenting to you to conclude your testimony or you will

8 hear the beeping of this particular timer.

9 In order to give as many people as possible an

10 opportunity to speak at today's hearing, priorities should

11 be given by you to those who have not made oral comments

12 at a previous hearing.

13 This is an informal hearing, and therefore you will

14 not be questioned or cross-examined in connection with

15 your comments. Also, it is not possible to answer your

16 questions here. Official responses to issues raised

17 during the comment period will be stated in the

18 Environmental Impact Statement/Environmental Impact

19 Report.

20 Your statements are being recorded by a certified

21 court reporter to accurately preserve them for the record.

22 Please keep in mind, however, that the reporter will not

23 record any statements from the audience or which are made

24 to the audience. Comments must be made into the

25 microphone.

00224

1 In order to allow as many people as possible to

2 speak, it is very important that everyone maintain an

3 atmosphere of courtesy and respect for each speaker.

4 Thus, it is important you refrain from applause, argument,

5 cheering or other disruptions from the audience. In

6 addition to that, it takes time away from the next

7 speaker. It will not be possible to take a clear record

8 if there are disruptions. We will maintain a fair and

9 neutral atmosphere in order to record comments into the

10 record.

11 Instead of presenting oral comments here this

12 evening or in addition to oral comments, you may submit

13 comments in writing. Written comments may be submitted

14 today to the staff at the registration table. The same is

15 true for any exhibits you may want to be part of your

16 written or oral statement, and the court reporter will

17 make them part of the record.

18 An address is available at the registration desk at

19 the back of the room. Written comments will be accepted

20 until November 16th, and these comments will be given the

21 same consideration as oral comments presented here.

22 At this time we're ready for the first speaker.

23 Dan Kepon will come and please give testimony at

24 this microphone here, and then Jim Holdner will come to

25 this microphone over here.

00225

1 Dan?

2 MR. KEPON: Good evening.

3 My name is Dan Kepon. Last name is spelled

4 K-E-P-O-N. I currently live in Fortuna, California. I

5 have a wife and three young children, and I've lived in

6 Humboldt County for 20 of my 39 years, and I've been an

7 employee of Pacific Lumber Company for 12 years.

8 I am second-generation timber. My father worked in

9 the industry for 40 years, the last 35 of which were for

10 another redwood company here in Humboldt County, and I was

11 raised and schooled on timber dollars.

12 I am here today to speak in favor of the Headwaters

13 Agreement and its Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained

14 Yield Plan. The Habitat Conservation Plans are designed

15 to protect designated species while allowing some

16 development and/or operations. In this PALCO HCP -- is

17 the most comprehensive ever developed for privately owned

18 commercial timberlands. It will protect six so-called

19 focus species and 30 other fish, amphibians, reptiles

20 birds, mammals and plants, these six focus species, of

21 course, being the marbled murrelet, the northern spotted

22 owl, the coho and chinook salmons, cutthroat trout and

23 steelhead or rainbow trout.

24 The Sustained Yield Plan, with its 120-year planning

25 period, is a comprehensive, ecosystem-oriented forest-

00226

1 management plan. It covers a full range of environmental

2 concerns as well as traditional harvest scheduling. The

3 fact is, while I fully support species and habitat --

4 protecting these species and habitat, my company needs

5 predictable and dependable sources to run its mills.

6 Social and economic concerns certainly need to be

7 taken into concern, and Pacific Lumber Company

8 employing over 1500 people directly here in Humboldt

9 County is by far the largest employer, generating more

10 than 170 million of economic activity annually. Local tax

11 dollars go to schools and can maintain our roads.

12 Indirectly, Pacific Lumber Company provides thousands of

13 jobs in our community by purchasing products and services

14 from vendors, department stores, grocery stores,

15 restaurants and et cetera and on and on.

16 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Dan, I need your conclusion.

17 MR. KEPON: Okay. Realizing the impact this plan

18 has on me, my family, my company, my community, please

19 finalize these plans as we may all move ahead with our

20 lives. While I was raised and schooled on timber dollars,

21 the Headwaters Agreement, with its Habitat Conservation

22 Plan and Sustained Yield Plan, ensures that my children

23 will continue to be, as well.

24 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Dan.

25 Bill Davis. Bill Davis, you'll be speaking after

00227

1 Jim.

2 Jim, your testimony, please.

3 MR. HOLDER: Jim Holdner, H-O-L-D-N-E-R.

4 Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak

5 today. I have been a resident of Humboldt County most of

6 my life, and in that time I have resided on Elk River

7 since 1979. I still live on Elk River, and I am proud to

8 say I work for the Pacific Lumber Company.

9 I am worried about my job. This worry stems from

10 the constant attack on me and my company from the

11 so-called environmentalists. I myself do not perceive

12 them as environmentalists but as protectionists. As I

13 said, I live on Elk River, a beautiful place to live and

14 grow up.

15 Ralph Krause taught me science in the eighth grade.

16 I learned about new and old rivers in his classes. I

17 remember a new river's a meandering stream; always trying

18 to straighten its course and straighten its course, it

19 will overflow its bank and flood. This explains the

20 fertile dairyland, built up over a thousand years by

21 siltation. These fields are flood plains. If people

22 build in flood plains or close to a river, they must

23 expect flooding.

24 The protectionists have gone so far as to lobby for

25 support on Elk River, leaving unsolicited literature and

00228

1 leaflets in my mailbox, also leaving papers in the box for

2 the "Times Standard" and "Tri-City." My mailbox is for

3 mail, and my paper boxes are for the papers that I want,

4 not for their hidden agendas.

5 The passing of the HCP would bring all these attacks

6 to an end. Not passing the HCP would not only hurt PALCO

7 and its employees, but also the county. PALCO's Humboldt

8 County's largest employer, providing some of the highest-

9 paying jobs, also providing a large tax base for the

10 county. Losing these jobs and the tax base would be

11 detrimental to Humboldt County, impacting schools, county

12 services, road work, and other businesses in Humboldt.

13 The HCP is based on a sound science: a two-year

14 effort made up of company scientists, outside consultants,

15 plus state and federal agencies. Seventy-five hundred

16 acres would be set aside as the Headwaters Reserve, plus

17 an additional 8500 acres of marbled murrelet conservation

18 areas would be set aside. The HCP is the most

19 comprehensive ever by a private timber company, surpassing

20 federal and state regulations. Wildlife will be

21 protected. PALCO must prove the plan works. If it

22 doesn't, PALCO must meet with federal and state biologists

23 to modify the plan.

24 By agreeing to the SYP, we commit ourselves not to

25 cut more timber than we grow. By doing this, we'll have

00229

1 a dependable source of timber for our sawmills, thus

2 protecting the economy of Humboldt County.

3 In closing, I would again like to thank you for

4 giving me this opportunity to speak.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Jim.

6 Josh Strange.

7 Josh, you'll be after Bill.

8 Bill, your testimony.

9 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Good evening.

10 I'm an employee for Pacific Lumber Company. I've

11 lived in Humboldt County for 14 years. I have been

12 employed by PL for ten years. I'm here today in support

13 of Pacific Lumber Company's Habitat Conservation Plan and

14 their Sustained Yield Plan.

15 I believe that PL has a lawful right to harvest and

16 replant trees on its property, which it has done for

17 decades in Humboldt County. I believe PL has meticulously

18 strived to protect the environment, at the same time

19 harvesting plant trees -- the social and economic impact

20 of these radical environmentalists' plan to shut down

21 Pacific Lumber Company's operations, this would be

22 financially devastating for families and the cities in

23 Northern California here. This industry provides work for

24 truckers, welders, electricians, mechanics, machinists,

25 and the list goes on.

00230

1 Pacific Lumber Company has demonstrated that it is

2 willing to sell a substantial portion of the Headwaters

3 Forest which is owned by PL to the public, which

4 guarantees that PL will not be cutting those portions of

5 forestland.

6 Now, this seems to me to be a good deal for

7 everyone here at this meeting. I believe that the Pacific

8 Lumber Company and its employees are good stewards of its

9 land and that our company produces quality products to

10 California and other states, as well as others.

11 I believe that this HCP/SYP should be approved and

12 proceed and get on with our lifestyle up here in Northern

13 California.

14 Thank you.

15 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Bill.

16 Jene McCovey?

17 Jene, you will be testifying after Josh.

18 Josh, your testimony, please.

19 MR. STRANGE: Hello. My name is Josh Strange.

20 That's S-T-R-A-N-G-E. I'm a resident of Humboldt County,

21 and I am a board member of Californians for Alternatives

22 to Toxics.

23 I'm here tonight to state my opposition to PALCO's

24 proposed ITP, SYP and Habitat Conservation Plans because

25 they will fail to adequately protect the threatened

00231

1 species they're supposed to conserve, in particular, coho

2 salmon.

3 The failure of PALCO's plans lies primarily in their

4 failure to adequately protect the stream environments,

5 which coho salmon, along with all anadromous fish, depend

6 on to complete their life cycle. PALCO plans to continue

7 its nonsustainable harvest rate in the near future,

8 logging almost 3,000 acres of pristine old-growth habitat

9 alone within the next ten years. Currently, all of the

10 stream systems within PALCO'S holdings are impacted by

11 excessive sedimentation, especially the egg-choking fine

12 sediments, with many stream reaches already exceeding the

13 14-percent limit set by the RPA for the Garcia River.

14 It would logically follow that more logging and road

15 building will further overload stream systems with

16 sediment, pushing them past their biological breaking

17 point. Once a stream is choked with sediments, it takes

18 years before it recuperates to a state where it can

19 support healthy, anadromous fish runs, critical years that

20 the imperiled coho cannot afford to lose.

21 One of the primary mitigation measures that PALCO

22 proposes is the designation of riparian management zones

23 to create streamside buffers. While the riparian

24 management zone concept is a good one, those proposed by

25 PALCO are too small to be effective, contrary to their

00232

1 assertions in the Habitat Conservation Plan.

2 One needs only to look at Yager Creek and the severe

3 problems it is experiencing with sedimentation and stream-

4 habitat loss and high water temperatures to see an example

5 of the harmful effects of an ineffective streamside

6 buffer. A minimum of 300 feet on all Class I coho-bearing

7 streams and 100 feet on all Class II streams would provide

8 a more adequate protection.

9 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Josh, I need your conclusion.

10 MR. STRANGE: In summation, biologists and fishery

11 experts agree that habitat loss is one of the primary

12 factors that has led to the decline of anadromous fish

13 throughout their historical range, and that any protection

14 efforts must halt the further degradation and loss of

15 their habitat. To this end, PALCO's ITP, SYP and Habitat

16 Conservation Plan are not adequate and circumvent the

17 intent of the Endangered Species Act, a law designed to

18 force the meaningful protection of species whose

19 extinction is imminent unless the status quo that brought

20 them to that point is changed.

21 I urge the National Fish and Wildlife Service,

22 National Marine Fisheries Service, and the California

23 Department of Forestry to take a stand to ensure forestry

24 practices that will uphold the ESA and protect the public's

25 fisheries resources by rejecting PALCO's current HCP/SYP.

00233

1 We must not forget extinction is forever, and history will

2 cast a shameful light on those with the power to protect

3 the future generations' resources but failed to do so.

4 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Josh.

5 Paul? Paul Billups?

6 Paul, you will be speaking after Jene.

7 Your testimony, please.

8 MS. MCCOVEY: My name is Jene McCovey, and I'm a

9 Yurok tribe member. I'm also Chetko and Tolowa and Hupa.

10 My native streams are the Smith River, the Klamath River

11 and the Hoopa -- or, the Trinity river. And in that from

12 the Rogue River down to the Mattole River, we are

13 considered an evolutionary significant unit of fish.

14 The Native American Coalition for Headwaters, which

15 mission is to preserve the last three percent of the

16 old-growth redwoods and to recognize the birthright of

17 Native Americans, which has allegiance to the fish.

18 The Creator gave us the redwoods and the fish from

19 the sea. As Karok medicine woman Jennrette Jacob Jawnee

20 said, that if you swing your hand in a broad circle and

21 you reach out and you grab a handful of air, that handful

22 of air is all the time that we have here on earth. And as

23 a medicine man Ritchie McClellan has said, that every

24 blade of grass, every creature and man in the spirit

25 world, we are equal and we are the same.

00234

1 So as Native Americans we stand in the middle of

2 those who have gone on before us and those who come after

3 us. So it behooves us to stand here and speak for those

4 that cannot speak, that is, the trees, the fish and the

5 animals in the forest.

6 The Native Americans in this Norwest California

7 region come from the world renewal religion. The Creator

8 gave us this mission: to balance the world between good

9 and evil, to dance the white deerskin dance and jump

10 dance, to do the healing ceremonies and the brush dance.

11 It has been public policy since 1850 that allowed 95

12 percent of the Wiyot Indians to be killed within the first

13 five years of white contact and 60 percent of the Yurok

14 Indians on the California -- on the Klamath River within

15 20 years. It has been public policy that allowed 97

16 percent of the old-growth redwoods to be logged. There is

17 only three percent left --

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jene, I need you to sum up your

19 statement.

20 Thank you.

21 MR. MCCOVEY: -- and that we speak on behalf of this

22 three percent. If you have Creation on one side and death

23 on the other side, and you allow a corporation to have the

24 extinction of animals or people, then that is evil,

25 because it is not part of Creation.

00235

1 There are many aspects of the Habitat Conservation

2 Plan that are inadequate, and one of them is addressing

3 the Native American issues and in consultation with Native

4 Americans. Another is with the pesticides and herbicides

5 that will be dealing on the land. They were created to

6 kill species. They have no place in this place, and we

7 pray for Creation.

8 Thank you.

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Jene.

10 Patrick Lancelin?

11 Patrick, you'll be after Paul.

12 Paul, your testimony.

13 MR. BILLUPS: Howdy. I am Paul Cooper Billups,

14 B-I-L-L-U-P-S; citizen, resident, wildlife artist, student

15 and working man, have worked logging with draft horses and

16 on several ranches. But God forgive the fat-cat

17 destroyers, because I for one, when the truth be known,

18 may not be able to.

19 Stop, look and listen. I blame no man for his

20 conscience. Still, actions are another story. If we

21 really and truly love the children with all our hearts,

22 even more than money, perhaps it is important to slow down

23 and not allow this plan to be railroaded through by the

24 "maxdamned corporation" or any other group. More

25 roundtable type of public discussion and education would

00236

1 probably be more than just wise. We, the people, have, by

2 certain powers that be, had much information withheld from

3 becoming commonly accessible knowledge.

4 Commerce without morality is wrong. Let money not

5 be our God.

6 A final question: What will you eat if/when the

7 grocery stores close down? Don't believe everything you

8 hear.

9 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Paul.

10 Before Patrick speaks, Doug Mosel. Doug will be

11 speaking after Patrick.

12 Patrick?

13 MR. LANCELIN: Hello, my name is Patrick Lancelin.

14 I'm a Stafford resident. I'm also a victim of Pacific

15 Lumber's outrageous, atrocious behavior to this day, and

16 to have this hearing, come here like this, is an actual

17 answer to our prayer, because you're here to make a

18 decision and to listen to us and what we'll tell you. And

19 what I am going to tell you today is that it is your

20 responsibility to watch out for our interests, our

21 children, our lives and our future.

22 I believe that the people of the Pacific Lumber

23 Company as it was before Maxxam Corporation are good

24 people. They deserve a job, they deserve their lifestyle

25 to be preserved, and they deserve for you to do the right

00237

1 thing, which is to bring something on the table that

2 everyone can live with in peace and in harmony for our

3 future.

4 I want to just say that I've been a resident, and my

5 family has owned property on Buck Mountain since 1966,

6 when it was Bliss Ranch, and turned into Deerfield Ranch,

7 when there was abundant life -- deer and every kind of

8 thing you ever wanted up there. And you might as well

9 just go ahead and look down Highway 36 and see what's

10 left, because this is the future that we are about to

11 inherit if you okay this outrageous, atrocious travesty to

12 happen.

13 And I just want you to look at this, because this

14 man named George Isaac sold and subdivided the property to

15 people from Los Angeles and the Bay Area. Another man,

16 named Graham Cottrell, he did the right thing. And he's

17 still doing the right thing, because he's still cutting

18 trees, and he's going to cut trees for the rest of his

19 life, because he's doing it in a sensible manner.

20 George Isaac, on the other hand, promised us a nice

21 hunting barn and everything else. When he was done he --

22 I don't want to say that he burned that barn down, but he

23 asked that the pieces of -- that meant something to him,

24 some pictures, be removed out of the barn the day before

25 it was burnt to the ground. We wound up with nothing.

00238

1 Nothing at all except a bunch of empty land. And to clean

2 up the mess that he did.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Patrick, I need your conclusion,

4 okay?

5 MR. LANCELIN: My conclusion is that this is

6 insanity, what goes on here. It's been going on too long.

7 We don't need this ridiculous habitat plan to give this --

8 another person, it's not even worth mentioning his name --

9 another license to steal from us and our children, our

10 dreams and our hopes.

11 And I really pray to God that you will do the right

12 thing, and I think -- I really think that you will. And I

13 want to say that we all love the Pacific Lumber Company as

14 it was, because it was a very, very shining jewel for

15 American industry. But that's not what it is today.

16 Thank you so much.

17 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Patrick.

18 Johanna Harman?

19 Johanna, you will be after Doug.

20 Doug, your testimony.

21 MR MOSEL: Mr. Ingram, Mr. Ludtke, Mr. Blum, I'm

22 Doug Mosel, M-O-S-E-L.

23 I grew up on a farm, and I think there I learned

24 some farm-bread common sense. I think there I learned

25 some respect for the land, and I think there I learned

00239

1 something about what happens when land is destroyed. My

2 farm-bread common sense does not make me an expert; and so

3 instead of commenting from that perspective, I want to ask

4 some questions about this process and I'd like to share

5 with you a couple of recommendations.

6 My simple logic is that each of you, and your

7 agencies, is accountable to each of us here, to the people

8 of Humboldt County, to the people of California,

9 ultimately to the people of this whole country. I'm

10 assuming that you are morally, legally and conscience

11 bound to uphold the federal and state laws that govern

12 your agencies and this hearing process, which requires you

13 to be allies of the species and lands you are appointed to

14 protect, as well as to look after the interests of the

15 people who reside there.

16 I'm expecting your record of these hearings to

17 answer the following questions: One, how do you explain

18 in an open -- supposedly open, democratic process the

19 apparent collusion with Pacific Lumber/Maxxam Corporation

20 when, for example, I notice that -- Mr. Ingram, your

21 agency's -- the Headwaters draft EIS/EIR question-and-

22 answer document, appears to be an apology for this HCP

23 even before the hearing process is completed.

24 I notice that each of you emerges from behind this

25 curtain in the company of PL/Maxxam executives. That does

00240

1 not appear to me to represent an open, democratic process.

2 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Doug, I need your summation.

3 MR. MOSEL: I know my time is up, so I'm going to

4 make my recommendation to you, briefly.

5 My recommendations are this: If you really want to

6 resolve this issue democratically, fairly and finally

7 bring it to closure with the support of Humboldt County

8 residents, I propose that you do the following things.

9 One, negotiate with the U.S. and California governments to

10 put the money for Headwaters in escrow for one year.

11 Remove your agencies from this process completely, unless

12 you're invited, with the condition that Pacific

13 Lumber/Maxxam management remove themselves completely

14 unless invited; replace this process with a working group

15 of Pacific Lumber workers and Humboldt County residents of

16 all persuasions; give them one year to determine how to

17 manage Pacific Lumber holdings in a way that sustains both

18 the economy and the environment. I believe they will

19 bring to you a sustainable plan.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Doug.

22 Michael Passoff?

23 Michael, you will be after Johanna.

24 Johanna, your testimony, please.

25 MS. HARMAN: Hi. Good evening. My name is Johanna

00241

1 Harman, J-O-H-A-N-N-A H-A-R-M-A-N. I'm here as a

2 taxpayer. I'm a lifelong resident of California. I grew

3 up with redwoods in my backyard. My father had a 29-foot

4 commercial salmon-fishing boat he fished called the

5 "Katherine," and we fished from Princeton Harbor in Half

6 Moon Bay up to Fort Bragg.

7 I don't have any sweeping --

8 I second what he said, by the way; Doug.

9 Anyway, 16 years ago my father sold his commercial

10 salmon-fishing boat because there were no more salmon to

11 fish. The salmon have disappeared. The salmon have not

12 recovered under your collective watch.

13 In considering this HCP/SYP, I am requesting that

14 your agencies assess its economic impact on the commercial

15 salmon-fishing industry. What I mean is, what is the time

16 frame for the resumption of the salmon industry's economic

17 viability with regard to this plan? I believe, that

18 despite the plan for mitigation of effects on the coho

19 salmon, the fishing industry will remain belly up. So I

20 would like to see a recovery plan. Is there a recovery

21 plan?

22 I believe that the decisions or lack of decisions of

23 your collective agencies have resulted in the takings of

24 an entire industry without just compensation, in a sense.

25 Vital riparian zones and coastal habitat is the

00242

1 foundation of the commercial salmon industry. I'm

2 concerned about the science. I'm concerned about all the

3 words and how the words are being used. I'm concerned

4 about that because there is so much play with these words,

5 that there is no science.

6 For example, terms and guidelines are a big part of

7 the foundation from which all actions are carried out.

8 The National Marine Fisheries doesn't have a definition of

9 "harm," as I understand it. How can you determine take if

10 you don't have a definition of harm? How can you

11 determine cumulative impact if whenever I look at people

12 -- when I see the Department of Forestry hemming and

13 hawing around what cumulative impact is. Should be pretty

14 basic, or it should be -- and if you don't know what

15 cumulative impact is, how can you say anything about this

16 plan? How can you approve it, how can you not approve it?

17 Anyway -- so also, the HCP -- the private-property

18 owner Pacific Lumber has a pattern of violations, over

19 270. And I ask you to look at the 1988 Supreme Court

20 Laurel Heights v. Regents. I would read it -- but

21 basically says you have to consider records such as

22 violations. And I would read them before you, it would

23 take me an hour. I timed myself. It took me half an hour

24 to read half of the violations. It was a lot to look at.

25 So those are a few things to think about.

00243

1 Thank you for your time, and I second what Doug said

2 about -- I think the community and environmentalists could

3 probably come up with something, because if people that

4 have their waders on and go into the stream and may --

5 Okay; sorry. Time.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Yeah. Thank you, Johanna.

7 MS. HARMAN: That's the point.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Tim Crowley?

9 Tim, you will be after Michael.

10 Michael, your testimony, please.

11 MR. PASSOFF: Hi. I'm Michael Passoff. I live in

12 Berkeley. I'm with the Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters,

13 and a Ph.D. candidate, Department of Forest Science.

14 I'd like to identify eight points of the aquatic

15 provisions which I feel are the weakest part of this HCP.

16 This information was assembled in the KRIS-coho CD-ROM

17 submitted to you earlier in the day. Here are some of the

18 highlights, or lowlights, as they may be.

19 One, coho status on PALCO lands. The HCP asserts

20 that the status and the trends of coho salmon on the

21 company's property are unknown; yet the trend is clear,

22 and data from the California Department of Fish and Game

23 show, that the coho now are largely absent from watersheds

24 where the company has been most active over the last

25 decade. That includes Yager Creek, Van Duzen River, and

00244

1 the lower Eel River.

2 Two, disturbance thresholds. Data suggests

3 extensive timber harvests in the Yager Creek, Van Duzen

4 and lower Eel watersheds have caused loss of coho habitat.

5 Cutting in some Cal Water Planning Units within these

6 watersheds are over 80 percent in a decade, while studies

7 from Oregon and elsewhere suggest that no more than 25

8 percent of a watershed should be disturbed in a decade to

9 maintain diverse salmon communities.

10 Three, there's no mention of watershed rest. Levels

11 of fine sediment and water temperatures on PALCO lands are

12 clearly over those suitable for coho salmon, and yet there

13 is no mention of restraint of timber harvest to allow for

14 a period of recovery. Recent studies indicate there is no

15 substitute for watershed rest if salmon restoration is to

16 succeed.

17 Four, roads. Data shows that high densities of

18 roads is directly linked to high fine sediment levels in

19 streambeds. PALCO says they intend to remove 50 miles of

20 roads per decade out of their approximately 2,000 miles of

21 logging roads. This poses an unacceptably high risk of

22 catastrophic flood damage from road failures during major

23 storm events.

24 Five, landslides. Major areas of the Bear River and

25 north fork of the Mattole River in PALCO ownership are

00245

1 extremely steep and subject to landsliding. Because these

2 areas are Douglas fir and not redwood, they have received

3 less public attention than Headwaters, yet landslides can

4 be expected to occur up to 30 years after timber harvest,

5 and sediment will course through -- and sediment will

6 course through the stream for decades. Mattole chinook

7 and coho are at high risk of extinction, and actions on

8 the HCP will highlight that risk and preclude restoration.

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: Michael, I need your conclusion.

10 MR. PASSOFF: Okay. I have three more, which I will

11 enter as written comments, but let me conclude by this: I

12 ask this panel to reject this HCP and reject the

13 incidental take permit per the written comments I'll

14 submit as well.

15 I think the outpouring of people here and the other

16 hearings show how much concern there is. I think very few

17 people are getting a chance to speak. I'd like to

18 recommend that you extend the comment and review period,

19 and/or -- the only way to solve this might be to have some

20 industry peer review, because right now there's so much

21 distrust on both sides of the government agencies and the

22 PALCO scientists from the other side of the environmental

23 scientists, I suggest you do an independent peer review

24 process for this HCP.

25 Thank you.

00246

1 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Michael.

2 Ron Bush?

3 Ron, you'll be speaking after Tim.

4 Tim, your testimony, please.

5 MR. CROWLEY: Good evening. My name is Tim Crowley,

6 C-R-O-W-L-E-Y. I'm a small metal-fabrication business

7 owner from Arcata, and I'm here to speak in favor of the

8 HCP/SYP plan. Although I'm not a scientist, I've had a

9 chance to look the plan over, and I think it's difficult

10 for me to say anything that you haven't heard repeatedly

11 today, so I'd just like to say I think you people find

12 yourself in the unique position to finally put an end to

13 the continual battling that's been going on in our

14 community for years and years and years.

15 Pacific Lumber Company is absolutely vital to our

16 community economically, socially, in so many aspects that

17 I can't list them all. The schools that they support,

18 good that Pacific Lumber Company has done for our

19 community, is a list that I'd stand here a long time

20 reading. My children have grown up here, and I want to be

21 here so that my grandchildren can grow up here.

22 You have the ability to accept this HCP/SYP plan. I

23 think it represents an unbelievable amount of work and

24 ground-giving from the Pacific Lumber Company standpoint

25 to try to bring peace to our community so that we can all

00247

1 quit worrying about whether we will or won't have a job or

2 will or won't be able to afford a house or send our

3 children to school and be able to have some stability in

4 our future.

5 So I'm hoping that you'll take a look at the big

6 picture and understand how far we've come in the last ten

7 or twelve years while we've been fighting and bickering

8 over this in our community, the unbelievable amount of

9 money that has been spent just on law enforcement at all

10 the hearings and when the guys are out in the woods trying

11 to stop all the protests.

12 So I just hope -- take a look at what you have the

13 ability to do now by accepting this HCP plan. Recognize

14 it for what it is: A great step forward in this country

15 from industry trying to recognize the deeds that they've

16 done in the past and put their best foot forward in trying

17 to solve the problems, and this plan will do that and go a

18 long ways towards allowing us to have a good life here in

19 the North Coast.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Tim.

22 Rick Onstad will be after Ron.

23 Ron, your testimony, please.

24 MR. LUTHER: Yes. Don Luther, L-U-T-H-E-R.

25 Sorry I didn't put my tie on tonight, but I just got

00248

1 off the job, go and pay my bills.

2 Seventy years ago the protesters that are here

3 tonight would have had a valid reason to go and protest

4 what they're protesting today. But times have changed.

5 New technologies, more professionals with higher

6 education. The HCP that is in question here tonight

7 brings new technology and professionals like yourself

8 together, people who hold masters', Ph.D.'s. What the

9 environmentalists are saying is no matter what plan you

10 come up with, it is not acceptable to them; or they want

11 more.

12 The timber industry as it stands today works under

13 the most rigid set of laws in this country, or if not the

14 world. The HCP is a sound policy that has been brought

15 together, and this should go forward, to go and protect

16 not only the jobs for the company that I work for but also

17 for the jobs of the community. Without the timber

18 industry, the rest of the economy will go down.

19 I've been a lifelong resident of Humboldt County. I

20 have worked fear PALCO for 22 years now. I have two

21 children that next year one will be heading for college.

22 The year after, my youngest will be heading for college.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion, Ron.

24 MR. BUSH: What I'm saying is -- is that -- study

25 the HCP that you professionals have put together. It is a

00249

1 sound policy. It should go forward.

2 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Ron.

3 Margie Nulsen?

4 Margie, you will be speaking after Rick.

5 Rick, your testimony, please.

6 MR. BUSH: My name is Ron Bush.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay.

8 MR. BUSH: Thank you for the opportunity to speak

9 tonight.

10 Gentlemen, I'm here today to speak in behalf of

11 Pacific Lumber Company's proposed Habitat Conservation

12 Plan and Sustained Yield Plan. I speak in support of my

13 employer PALCO, Humboldt County, my neighborhood, and most

14 importantly, my family. I realize the spiritual, social

15 and economic impact that the rejection of these plans will

16 hold for all of us that are dependent on the timber

17 industry in this local area.

18 The residents and business owners of Humboldt County

19 have been occupied by a blatant and covert force of

20 radical environmentalists that have twisted and broken

21 laws of God and of man in an attempt to covet and take

22 what is not theirs. And take what is not theirs by any

23 unscrupulous and lawless means.

24 By their illegal acts of a conspiracy and trespass,

25 they have disrupted private and governmental business and

00250

1 trod over the peace and freedom of the citizens of this

2 county. Their illegal acts have cost and will continue to

3 cost the businesses, the citizens of this county and state

4 literally millions of dollars to satisfy their personal

5 urban guilt. Their irresponsible acts must be checked.

6 The Pacific Lumber Company is dedicated to providing

7 a Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan that

8 far exceeds any governmental requirements that exist

9 today. They are trying extremely hard to gain the

10 approval they deserve, to do their business in a lawful

11 fashion so they can be the best at what they have done for

12 over 120 years. We want to continue to be the best

13 stewards of the lands that we can be. The Pacific Lumber

14 Company has a right to conduct their business of making

15 quality timber products to supply the needs of our nation.

16 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Ron, I need your conclusion.

17 MR. BUSH: Your job is to help them do that. Not to

18 shut them down, but to help them conduct their business in

19 the best possible fashion they can. The plans they are --

20 they propose are scientific, state of the art, stripped

21 and self-imposed in an effort to conduct their business in

22 the most environmentally sound way possible.

23 Please, on behalf of my son who spoke here today, on

24 behalf of my son-in-law who also spoke here today, my

25 wife, my daughters and my two grandsons: Please don't

00251

1 forget the families of this great company, those who have

2 lived, worked and died amongst the wildlife and trees they

3 love and revere, the very trees that have harvested --

4 they have harvested, nurtured and reharvested for

5 generations, and need to nurture and harvest for

6 generations to come.

7 I urge each one of you to give your greater and

8 required attention to the quality of human life and the

9 needs of the people dependent on this industry.

10 Thank you very much.

11 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Ron.

12 Earl Bootier. Earl, I called for Margie Nulsen.

13 Okay.

14 And then are you Earl?

15 MR. ONSTAD: No, I'm Rick Onstad. I think we got a

16 little out of sequence.

17 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Okay. I haven't called for

18 you, I believe.

19 MR. ONSTAD: Well, I was number 13 and we're up to

20 about 15 now, so --

21 PRESIDING OFFICER: You're Rick?

22 MR. ONSTAD: Yes.

23 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Okay, Rick.

24 Let's take Margie first.

25 Okay. Margie?

00252

1 MS. NULSEN: Hi. Thank you for listening to me

2 tonight and for putting in this long day along with me.

3 I'm a little bleary-eyed, and I hope I'm clear.

4 I'm alarmed at an example that was pointed out to me

5 recently of the inaccurate data in this EIS, and I just

6 want to address an example of that.

7 The average harvest per decade printed on page

8 3.9, 3.8 on the draft EIS is incorrectly calculated. The

9 average printed in the Table 3.9(c)(6) is 400 million

10 board feet higher than the correct average. Similarly,

11 the average of the twelve decades of harvest listed in

12 Table 3.9-6(a) is 300 million board feet higher than the

13 correct average. Likewise, the average printed on the top

14 half of pages 3.39, 4.0 and 4.1 are all incorrect. In

15 fact, on page 3.9,3.8 there are two identical columns of

16 twelve numbers, and the draft EIS has two different

17 averages for the identical lists of twelve numbers.

18 Finding the average of twelve numbers is

19 something an eighth-grader could do, yet in a HCP/EIS set

20 of documents costing millions of dollars, such a simple

21 calculation is repeatedly done incorrectly. If such a

22 simple error is obvious on the surface of the document,

23 what are the errors or distortions that lie below the

24 surface?

25 It seems the government and its agency officials

00253

1 will be derelict in their duty if they approve a plan

2 which is fraught with errors. Approving such a plan would

3 commit the government to defending it if the HCP/EIS were

4 challenged in court. Government defense of the plan would

5 cost taxpayers millions of dollars to defend against the

6 legitimate objections of U.S. citizens. Consequently,

7 agency officials should be personally liable for approving

8 a faulty document which would unnecessarily cost U.S.

9 taxpayers millions of dollars. That's all I want to say

10 about that.

11 I wish that we could talk to each other and

12 communicate throughout this entire day. I've felt

13 saddened at the lack of communication between us in this

14 community. I don't know how we can do that, but I just

15 want to appeal to all of us in this room to really listen

16 to one another. This is -- it's really important; to be

17 together as a community is really precious.

18 I want to add one other thing for the record. The

19 following items have been submitted to you: six issues of

20 the "Voices" newspaper, one copy of the video "Voices of

21 Humboldt County: The Cumulative Impact"; "The Last Stand"

22 by David Harris; and letters to CDF from local citizens.

23 Thank you very much.

24 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you.

25 Earl Bootier?

00254

1 Rick, I apologize. You're on.

2 Thank you.

3 MR. ONSTAD: I was originally going to say good

4 morning. I'm going to say good evening. My name is Rick

5 Onstad, O-N-S-T-A-D. I work for Hyster Sales Company. We

6 are vendors for Pacific Lumber Company as well as many

7 other companies on the North Coast. We supply machinery

8 and parts as well as technical support.

9 As you know, Pacific Lumber Company not only

10 impacts its own work force but provides jobs for many

11 other companies that supply service and support for them.

12 We at Hyster Sales Company support the Habitat

13 Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan, as well as the

14 overall Headwaters Agreement, due to the following facts

15 as we understand them.

16 One, the HCP provides for commercial operations as

17 long as a protected species and habitat are indeed

18 protected. The SYP commits that it won't cut more timber

19 than it can grow. This agreement was reached not only by

20 Pacific Lumber Company but virtually every government

21 agency that is concerned with the environment.

22 If Pacific Lumber Company were forced to cease

23 operations, it would be a devastating blow, not only to

24 them, but to the North Coast community as well. This

25 agreement not only takes into consideration that which is

00255

1 good for the Pacific Lumber Company, but the environment

2 and the local economy, as well. Pacific Lumber Company

3 not only looks to the present, but also looks ahead to the

4 future and well being for all.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Rick.

7 Milo Appel?

8 Milo will be speak after Earl.

9 Earl, your testimony.

10 MR. BOOTIER: The name's Earl Bootier.

11 I can't tell you how much I hate having to appear

12 here and do this public speaking bit. If this HCP/SYP

13 passes as written, I'm sure that myself and my offspring

14 will be probably testifying for the next 120 years,

15 because this whole process is flawed, and it really needs

16 to be addressed by the federal agencies here.

17 I'd like to ask Dean Ludtke why he's here today.

18 Frankly, Dean, I'm embarrassed for you. You have

19 abrogated the public trust by not enforcing the law in

20 your possession at CDF. You, along with Maxxam and its

21 310-and-counting violations, cannot be trusted. That is

22 why the federal agencies are here today. You have failed

23 us miserably. If you had done your job, we would not be

24 here now.

25 The public here today is being given a tiny voice in

00256

1 this process. We are once again having to place our trust

2 in agencies which are subject to political pressure.

3 Please make it possible to regain some faith in our

4 public, tax-paid-for agencies. Reject this HCP, THP as

5 written.

6 Now, only a bureaucratic, top-heavy process could

7 call 50-year, clear-cut license to kill endangered and

8 threatened species a, quote, "Habitat Conservation Plan."

9 This is bullpucky. The only thing conserved is Charles

10 Hurwitz's opportunity to extract and extort money from our

11 county in violation of the public trust while decimating

12 water quality, the fisheries and the sustainable forestry.

13 PALCO's SYP calls for a cut of 230 million board

14 feet per year for the next ten years. Contrast this with

15 the Norwest Forest Plan for Six Rivers, which is a forest

16 five times larger than Maxxam's holdings, which calls for

17 15 to 20 million board feet per year to be cut. Maxxam's

18 is cut-and-run logging.

19 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Earl, I need your conclusion.

20 Thank you.

21 MR. BOOTIER: Okay. I'm going to skip a lot here.

22 You folks know more than I do about soils and fish,

23 but I do know that if a clearcut destroys a thousand years

24 of topsoil, and if water temperatures are too high, then

25 the trees won't grow and the fish won't live. Studies

00257

1 from Oregon suggest that no more than 25 percent of our

2 watershed should be cut and disturbed in a decade if

3 salmon are to survive.

4 I would really like to encourage the U.S. Fish and

5 Wildlife Service and the Marine Fisheries Service, when

6 they sit down with Maxxam after the 16th of November, when

7 all public input is precluded, to really -- in short --

8 I can't read all this.

9 We need a sustainable forestry and not short-term

10 profit. Please do your jobs. And don't follow -- don't

11 follow Dean Ludtke's example.

12 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Andrew Butts, you'll be

13 speaking after Milo.

14 Are you Milo?

15 MR. APPEL: Yeah.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay, Milo. Great.

17 MR. APPEL: Okay. I'm just concerned about the

18 trees here, everything here. I live next to a creek that

19 used to have a lot of salmon in it. Now all the

20 watersheds are destroyed. That's not nearly as much fish

21 there. Their used to be tons more than there is now. I

22 disagree with this.

23 And nothing really else.

24 I know a lot of the places around hillsides where I

25 live will be cut, and I really disagree with that. I go

00258

1 to soccer practice on a field, and there is a hill up

2 above that is scheduled to be cut. I really don't want

3 that to happen.

4 I just disagree with this plan going through.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Milo.

7 Clarence Hostler?

8 Clarence, you'll be speaking after Andrew.

9 MR. BUTTS: Hi. I'm Andrew Butts, B-U-T-T-S.

10 The Supreme Court of California clearly stated in

11 Laurel Heights v. Regents in 1988, quote, "A project

12 proponent's prior environmental record is properly a

13 subject of close consideration in determining the

14 sufficiency of the proponent's promises of an

15 environmental report."

16 Let's take a look at PL's prior record and promises.

17 PL's promise is that the HCP is above and beyond the

18 environmental responsibilities of current state forestry

19 laws. Well, in the past three years over 250 violations

20 of current state foresty laws have been cited on PL

21 property. That's an average of almost two violations a

22 week. That alone is unprofessional and unacceptable to

23 the people of this county.

24 In July of 1997 the Humboldt County Municipal Court

25 placed the company on probation for their unprecedented

00259

1 illegal activities. On May 22nd of this year, the same

2 court found the company guilty for violating this

3 probation. The California Department of Forestry, who

4 some would say is an industry-friendly and rubber-stamp

5 agency, wouldn't even reissue PL's operating license.

6 That's right. Pacific Lumber Company doesn't even have a

7 real timber operating license. They have a provisional

8 license, along with a stipulated agreement.

9 And, lo and behold, good old PL/Maxxam have violated

10 that agreement also by being issued 40-plus violations of

11 the Forest Practice Rules, three criminal convictions, two

12 strikes, and issuance of a take by local Department of

13 Fish and Game, all in 1998. And as of today, I guess PL's

14 provisional license was taken away.

15 Well, there's one thing that's very clear to me, and

16 that's that PL does go above and beyond their blatant

17 disregard for state and federal environmental and

18 regulatory laws as well as their agreements with

19 regulatory agencies and the legal courts. Under the

20 federal Endangered Species Act, the law for incidental

21 take-permit procedures specifically states, quote --

22 Okay. I got you.

23 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thanks.

24 MR. BUTTS: "Upon receipt of a properly executed

25 application for a permit, the director shall issue

00260

1 the appropriate permit unless the applicant has been

2 assessed a civil penalty or convicted of any

3 criminal provision of any statute or regulation

4 relating to the activity for which the application

5 is filed if such assessment or conviction evidences

6 a lack of responsibility."

7 That's 50 CFR 13.21(b)(1), the Endangered Species

8 Act. This provision was added with a corporation like PL

9 in mind.

10 My testimony states that according to federal law

11 and in agreement with the California Supreme Court, the

12 Humboldt County court, CDF, DF -- the Department of Fish

13 and Game, that Pacific Lumber is ineligible to receive an

14 incidental take permit.

15 I only hope this panel will restore the public trust

16 to the people of this county, state and nation by doing

17 your job and denying the ITP and offer some solutions that

18 include recovery of endangered species.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Andrew.

21 Deborah Bruce?

22 Deborah, you'll be after Clarence.

23 Clarence, your testimony.

24 MR. HOSTLER: Thank you. My name is Clarence

25 Hostler, H-O-S-T-L-E-R.

00261

1 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you.

2 MR. HOSTLER: And what I've got to say -- I can't

3 pull myself to say it in two to three minutes, so what I'd

4 like to do is give my remaining time to Deborah.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: Deborah, I'm going to hold you

6 to three to four minutes, okay? Because we have a lot of

7 people that want to --

8 MS. BRUCE: Yes, I understand.

9 Thank you, Clarence.

10 MS. BRUCE: My name is Deborah Bruce, B-R-U-C-E. I

11 did attend the Oakland hearing. Some of what I wanted to

12 say there bears repeating, and some I didn't get a chance

13 to say because there just isn't enough time. Sorry.

14 I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I also spend

15 significant time here in Humboldt County because Clarence,

16 my partner, is native to this area. He is Hupa, Yurok,

17 Karok. So my perspective, our perspective, on salmon as

18 endangered species has a human-rights aspect, a cultural

19 and spiritual aspect, as well as honoring the science of

20 salmon's place in a once-perfect cycle of forests,

21 watersheds and oceans.

22 I also want to say to Wiyot and other high-dance

23 people who are here today, I want to acknowledge and honor

24 your presence. This land is yours. I want to apologize

25 for what my race, the European race, has done here. My

00262

1 perspective may be different from the mainstream. I

2 cringe at Maxxam's emphasis on private-property rights

3 when their devastating operations not only violate the

4 public trust, but are conducted on lands that have never

5 seen reparations made for the illegal way in which they

6 were acquired only about 150 years ago, that is, by

7 massacre and genocide against the original inhabitants.

8 I believe that Maxxam's arrogance and the

9 agencies' evident collusion are a continuation of the

10 mentality that perpetrated that history. Private property

11 is a blood-soaked concept. Nonetheless, it entails deep

12 responsibilities. Maxxam claims private-property rights

13 yet continually and arrogantly violates Forest Practice

14 law.

15 Maxxam does not own the region's water that it has

16 contaminated with herbicides and erosive siltation; Maxxam

17 doesn't own the climate that supports life on earth that

18 is being destroyed and disrupted by the cumulative impact

19 of worldwide deforestation; PL does not own the lives of

20 communities such as Stafford and Freshwater and the

21 Mattole, threatened by greed-driven, unsustainable

22 practices.

23 PL has already brought coho and other species closer

24 to extinction, as a permit to destroy salmon and other

25 endangered species, watersheds, biodiversity and

00263

1 endangered old-growth redwood/Douglas-fir biosystem.

2 This HCP legally must be rejected for the inadequate

3 stream protections, for cutting on steep, unstable slopes.

4 You should already know the science. The only appropriate

5 plan is one that would focus all efforts -- all efforts on

6 restoration, reparation. Under what authority have CDF

7 and other agencies been directed to ignore existing

8 protections and refrain from really fulfilling their

9 highest responsibility of enforcing the laws? Agencies

10 have not really ordered PL to desist or punished PL for

11 countless violations. Don't let a six-week license

12 suspension be a smokescreen for Maxxam to continue its

13 illegal work by contracting it out.

14 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I need your conclusion,

15 Deborah.

16 MS. BRUCE: Look at the pictures of what Maxxam has

17 done. Walk the clearcuts, fly over the devastation.

18 Study KRIS-coho, talk to Pat Higgins, talk to independent

19 scientists that have been shut out of this process. This

20 HCP only supports and perpetuates Maxxam's obsolete,

21 devastating, rapacious practices which serve an elitist,

22 oblivious, consumer society and a corrupt corporate thief,

23 Charles Hurwitz.

24 The Headwaters deal is inadequate. The PL HCP will

25 not bring closure but it will bring extinctions. There

00264

1 are creative, sustainable alternatives. We need an

2 independent scientific review to recreate a plan. We need

3 to review it with the watershed communities.

4 Thank you.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Deborah.

6 Are you Gerald?

7 After Gerald will be Jim Robertson.

8 Gerald, your testimony.

9 MR. SARVINSKI: My name is Gerald Sarvinski. I've

10 lived in Humboldt County for 40 years. I've been employed

11 at Pacific Lumber for 26 years.

12 I'm here this evening because Pacific Lumber

13 committed to preserve their own forestland by not

14 harvesting all their old-growth during the last 130 years.

15 Now Pacific Lumber is under a microscope because we did it

16 right. Unlike our competitors, PALCO chose to harvest by

17 either clearcutting or select-cutting on a sustained-yield

18 basis.

19 Since the late 1920's, Pacific Lumber has cooperated

20 with the government and Save the Redwoods League to

21 preserve redwood forests for future generations. Pacific

22 Lumber sold, swapped or donated approximately 20,000 acres

23 that is preserved in our park system today. PALCO is

24 yielding thousands more acres for the Headwaters

25 Agreement. During the mid-seventies to this day, PALCO

00265

1 raised and released salmon, steelhead and rainbow trout in

2 the Eel and Van Duzen Rivers to help restore depleted

3 stocks of these precious species.

4 We are at the crossroads of our careers at the

5 Pacific Lumber Company, not knowing the ramifications of

6 the Headwaters Agreement and what lies before us.

7 The HCP and SYP are sound proposals, protecting the

8 environment and saving much-needed jobs for our area. My

9 greatest concerns are jobs and the great contributions

10 Pacific Lumber grants to scholarships, churches, service

11 organizations, the annual Junior Livestock Auction, the

12 arts and sciences, and to our youth athletic

13 organizations.

14 Pacific Lumber has sacrificed forestland before to

15 the government and still survived. We, as employees,

16 recommend the approval of the HCP and SYP to sustain our

17 jobs, care for the environment, and provide tax revenue

18 for our local government and schools.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Gerald.

21 Tim Coppini?

22 Tim, you'll be after Jim.

23 Jim, your testimony, please.

24 MR. ROBERTSON: Hello. My name is Jim Robertson,

25 R O-B-E-R-T-S-O-N. I'm a second-generation employee of

00266

1 Pacific Lumber Company. I've been employed at PL for 18

2 years. I'm married and a father of two daughters.

3 Having lived in Scotia my entire life, I have

4 first-hand knowledge about how PALCO respects their

5 environment, their employees and the community. Pacific

6 Lumber has raised and released millions of fish into the

7 Eel and Van Duzen Rivers. Pacific Lumber has set aside

8 thousands of acres of lands for parks, Rockefeller Forest,

9 Fern Canyon, Prairie Creek. Their employees are

10 well-paid, hard-working individuals that pay taxes and

11 contribute to the community in many different ways. PALCO

12 contributes scholarships to the employees' children of

13 approximately $175,000 a year. PALCO grants cash

14 donations or materials to local schools, service

15 organizations, charities and youth activities in Humboldt

16 County. PALCO's also the largest private employer in

17 Humboldt County. The company pays a huge timber yield tax

18 that supports local schools and provides taxes for roads.

19 The Headwaters Agreement is essential for the

20 communities because Pacific Lumber cannot harvest more

21 trees than they grow. This means jobs. The agreement

22 protects an additional 10,000 acres of land to protect

23 fish and wildlife while sustaining thousands of taxpaying

24 jobs for Humboldt County.

25 The company has been good to me and my family and

00267

1 the community. They are good stewards of the land, which

2 I stated earlier. I urge you to accept the Headwaters

3 Agreement for the good of the environment and the security

4 of their employees.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Vanora Ciullo?

7 Vanora, you will be after Tim.

8 Go ahead.

9 MR. COPPINI: My name is Tim Coppini,

10 C-O-P-P-I-N-I. I'm a fourth-generation Humboldt County

11 resident and an employee of Pacific Lumber Company.

12 Let's put aside the issue of Earth First versus PL

13 and look at the evidence that wood as a renewable

14 resource -- there is no other building material that is

15 more friendly to the environment than wood. Processing

16 lumber creates no pollution and there is no waste. Also,

17 there is no other wood that grows faster than the

18 California redwood, which grows 2400 board foot per year

19 -- per acre per year.

20 There is no -- there are more than 350,000 acres of

21 parks and reserves set aside, preserved forever. Before

22 the Headwaters deal, 95 percent of the giant redwoods were

23 already preserved. The bulk of the redwood we process is

24 from second- and third-growth trees. Land that can

25 sustain and nurture redwood is extremely valuable, and

00268

1 private owners take excellent care of this resource.

2 Reforestation programs are put in place to keep the land

3 productive and maintained after harvest.

4 California already has the strictest harvest

5 regulations. Every harvest operation must be reviewed in

6 advance and approved by the California Department of

7 Forestry and Fire Protection. The law requires that an

8 adequate number of trees be left to make up new forests.

9 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Tim, I need your conclusion,

10 okay?

11 MR. COPPINI: The landowner must replant and provide

12 protection of soil, air, wildlife and water resources.

13 This is what PL has been doing for generations. And our

14 young-growth forests are homes to deer, bear, owl, salmon

15 and many other forms of wildlife.

16 We need the HCP and SYP so we can provide the

17 materials needed for our own growth.

18 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Tim.

19 Sierra Simpson? After Vanora.

20 Go ahead, Vanora.

21 MS. CIULLO: My name is Vanora Ciullo. I am 11 years

22 old.

23 I live on land with second-growth redwood trees. I

24 love waking up in the morning and seeing these beautiful

25 trees and want my children's children to have the same

00269

1 opportunities. I live on land that has been logged three

2 times this century, but it was never stripped of all

3 vegetation, the way the Maxxam now logs Pacific Lumber

4 lands. Even though our land doesn't have any old-growth

5 redwoods left, there is lots of wildlife because it was

6 logged in a way that Pacific Lumber used -- used before

7 the takeover by Maxxam.

8 Although my land is beautiful and grows trees well,

9 it is not an old-growth forest with ancient redwood trees.

10 I believe that all ancient redwood forests should be

11 protected, and all timberlands must be logged in a

12 sustainable way that saves wildlife, fish and future

13 regrowth of the forest for my children's children.

14 Thank you for listening to my comments.

15 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Vanora.

16 Sierra Simpson and Ellen Taylor.

17 Is Sierra here? Okay.

18 And then Ellen Taylor, please come to the front,

19 give your testimony next.

20 MS. SIMPSON: My name's Sierra Simpson,

21 S-I-E-R-R-A S-I-M-P-S-O-N.

22 Until last night I had planned to come only as an

23 observer and to listen to what others had to say. I kept

24 telling myself I wasn't informed enough to speak. I was

25 born and raised in the Mattole River Valley, and I know

00270

1 that I love that place more than any informed words could

2 express. I also know that every year I see more and more

3 sediment fill the rivers, destroying the salmon's habitat.

4 Logging on the steep slopes above is a big contributor to

5 this.

6 Maxxam's second largest holding of old-growth is in

7 the Mattole Valley. With Maxxam's track record, I fear

8 that if this deal passes they will log these trees in such

9 a way that will devastate an already delicate watershed.

10 If this happens, no amount of information will be able to

11 ease the ache in my heart.

12 The Endangered Species Act was put into place to

13 protect what is left of a once-great salmon run; and if

14 the HCP passes, this law will be ignored, and so will the

15 salmon. Salmon an are indicator species. Their decline

16 is a sign that we are out of balance.

17 I just recently reread Willa Cather's "O! Pioneer,"

18 and at the end of the story the main character is looking

19 out at the lands which she and her family had acquired in

20 her lifetime. She thought, "I do not own this land. I

21 love it, but I do not own it. It belongs to itself, and

22 is here for each new generation to take care of."

23 The land in Humboldt County does not belong to me or

24 to you or to Charles Hurwitz. It is here for us to take

25 care of. There can and should continue to be logging in

00271

1 this county, but not in the way that is happening now and

2 will continue to happen if the HCP passes. If this does,

3 there will not be anything left for the next generation to

4 take care of.

5 Thank you.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Sierra.

7 Blake Johnsgard, you will be testifying after Ellen.

8 Ellen, your testimony, please.

9 MS. TAYLOR: My name is Ellen Taylor, and I'm a

10 resident of the Mattole, and I speak as a resident of the

11 Mattole and an enjoyer of public-trust values and as a

12 property owner. I own a 240-acre ranch at the mouth of

13 the Mattole. I also speak for the Lost Coast League.

14 And I've read the HCP, and I find it to be more or

15 less consonant with the corporate ethic of "more, now,

16 hurry," which Maxxam and other corporations have always

17 held to. And Maxxam indeed is a leader of the pack out in

18 the multinational land where he who has the gold, rules.

19 And the HCP seems to admit this, frankly. It's

20 stated several times that it's not in the restoration

21 business; and when discussing why it wasn't going to

22 adhere to FEMAT standards in its riparian management

23 zones, it just frankly stated that there was -- that there

24 would be not enough of a profit margin if they did that.

25 And we've been encouraged to be fatalistic about that.

00272

1 And a group of Mattole residents went down to Scotia

2 one day last summer to expostulate about violence in the

3 woods which was occurring in the Sulphur Creek watershed,

4 and the subject turned to the Maxxam takeover, and Tom

5 Herman said -- or by way of consolation, that we shouldn't

6 be disturbed about it, that some other corporation would

7 have taken over Pacific Lumber if Maxxam hadn't.

8 And the question is, how much are which going to let

9 them take? And for Maxxam workers, it's how much they're

10 going to take, how much they're going to put up with in

11 work that they know is undermining their future and

12 undermining their families' future in order to make a

13 day's paycheck. It's how far into the future they're

14 willing to look.

15 And for us in the Mattole, it's how often we find

16 and are able to look the other way when ancient trees are

17 cut on precipitous, rain-beaten earthquake-shaken slopes

18 causing debris torrents which race down the Class III's

19 and wipe out wildlife, sportfishing and the once

20 one-hundred-million-dollar commercial-fishing industry.

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Ellen, I need your conclusion.

22 Thank you.

23 MS. TAYLOR: I'm a health care practitioner. I've

24 practiced in Humboldt County for over 20 years in various

25 clinics, and I've noticed that there's a strong

00273

1 relationship between the accelerating disappearance of the

2 natural world and our own physical and psychic health.

3 And we've traveled as fellow travelers with all

4 these species that are on the brink of extermination for

5 millennia. We've only been out of the woods, as it were,

6 for one one-thousandth of our lifetime as a species. And

7 this is the sort of edge effect, which causes anxiety,

8 profound anxiety, and anxiety causes disease. And our

9 health as a species will suffer if the coho salmon only

10 exists on a T-shirt in the near future. And beauty is

11 restorative to health, as any logger or any fisherman

12 knows. And you agencies must require an HCP which obeys

13 laws in a meaningful way, expands the obligation of Maxxam

14 to good land stewardship, thus maintaining employment

15 without destroying our health.

16 Thank you.

17 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Ellen.

18 Bart Gruzalski will be speaking after Blake.

19 Blake?

20 MR. JOHNSGARD: Hello. My name is Blake Johnsgard.

21 That's J-O-H-N-S-G-A-R-D. I'm 39 years old, and I've

22 lived in Humboldt County all my life with the exception of

23 four years.

24 I have written a speech here to slam Earth First and

25 to slam the Sierra Club for their dealings in Humboldt

00274

1 County, but I want to talk about something else. I'm kind

2 of shooting from the hip.

3 I'm tired of Pacific Lumber being blamed for

4 everything in this county. I'm in favor of the habitat

5 plan and the SYP and the Headwaters deal as it is written.

6 I read a book once in -- probably a couple years ago, but

7 I never forgot it. It was written in the 1970's, right

8 after the park expansion.

9 Cal Berkeley -- in it, it said Cal Berkeley did a

10 study on redwood trees in a controlled environment, and

11 redwood trees grew four inches a day, four inches a day in

12 a perfectly controlled environment. It also talked about

13 how much gross per acre. And it was from 600 to 6,000

14 board feet per acre. So when I heard that we were going

15 to log no more than around 1200 feet per acre per year, I

16 was ecstatic knowing that my job would be here tomorrow

17 and years after and my kids would be able to be here, have

18 the same thing that I had.

19 I'm also a sport fisherman, and we've been blamed

20 for all the salmon habitat and the salmon declines in the

21 last 15 years. We've been here for over a hundred years.

22 There's -- I go down the river now and I fish and I

23 was down there a few months ago and I threw my line in and

24 I seen this minnow swimming on the top of the surface.

25 And up from the top come this, what they call squawfish --

00275

1 it's a carnivorous fish -- and they attack that minnow

2 like a bunch of piranhas. The Eel River is full of

3 squawfish now, and if you've been a fisherman on the Eel

4 River now for the last 30 years, you would know the

5 difference in the amount of squawfish. You can't throw

6 your line in without catching a squawfish, and we never

7 had them before.

8 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I need your conclusion.

9 MR. JOHNSGARD: Okay. I'll close in saying I'm in

10 favor of the plan. And one more thing I'd like to say is

11 my wife works out in the field -- and she doesn't work for

12 the company, she works for somebody else -- but anyway,

13 she talked to a person and they were talking about pampas

14 grass. And the person said, "Yeah, I've been trying to

15 kill it." He said, "You know why we have that pampas

16 grass here? It's because PL introduced it into the area

17 to cover up their clearcuts." I don't think so.

18 Thank you.

19 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Blake.

20 Peter Childs?

21 Peter, you're going to be after Bart.

22 MR. GRUZALSKI: Well, thank you all. You've had a

23 long day up there.

24 I'm a professor emeritus of philosophy and public

25 policy from Northeastern University in Boston, and I'm an

00276

1 associate faculty member at Humboldt State University.

2 And I did bring along an original argument to try to

3 catch your attention, because I think you've had a long

4 day; but what I prefer to do at this point is to put it in

5 writing and to defer to Julia Butterfly for my remaining

6 time.

7 Is that all right?

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: We can give Julia two minutes.

9 As long as she understands that, because I remember in

10 Oakland, it ran really long.

11 After Julia will be Peter Childs. Is Peter here?

12 Peter, you will be next.

13 MS. BUTTERFLY (via cell phone): Hello, this is

14 Julia Butterfly.

15 MR. GRUZALSKI: You're on, Julia.

16 MS. BUTTERFLY: Hello. Thank you for giving me the

17 time to speak again. I know I ran over last time. It

18 seems we have a lot of history to try and shove into two

19 minutes, but I'll do my best.

20 Normally, I speak from the heart and the spirit,

21 because these are extremely vital to our connection to our

22 lives, to our very existence; but I know that many of you

23 listening to me tonight might discount the importance of

24 the heart and the spirit, so I'm going to touch on a

25 couple of things that will be on a level that everyone can

00277

1 understand.

2 California Department of Forestry, U.S. Fish and

3 Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service: Your

4 job is not to protect the corporate interests of Maxxam.

5 You are not a Pacific Lumber/Maxxam employee. Your job is

6 to protect the forests and the species that call these

7 forests home. Your job is to uphold and enforce the law,

8 but you are not doing it. I reminded you of this last

9 time; I'm reminding you of it again to make sure that you

10 don't forget.

11 If you were doing your job, this species and their

12 habitat would not be going extinct in the first place. I

13 wouldn't be up here for the last eleven months. It has

14 been very hard. David Gypsy Chain would not have been

15 killed doing your job, trying to stop an illegal logging

16 operation, and many groups such as EPIC would not have had

17 to spend the last twelve years in and out of courts

18 merely trying to get the laws in existence upheld and

19 enforced. That is your job to do.

20 This is not about the economy versus the

21 environment, as many would --

22 PRESIDING OFFICER: Julia, we need to conclude this.

23 MS. BUTTERFLY: Listen to me. Please understand

24 this is not about economy versus the environment --

25 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I'm going to have to cut the

00278

1 microphone off.

2 MS. BUTTERFLY: -- pitting the victims against the

3 victims --

4 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you very much, Julia.

5 Peter Childs?

6 Your next testimony, please.

7 Danny will be after Peter.

8 Peter, your testimony.

9 MR. CHILDS: Thank you. I'm Peter Childs,

10 C-H-I-L-D-S. I scarcely know what to say. I've been here

11 all day long, and I have heard so much said by people who

12 I know and many of whom I care for personally in the

13 timber industry.

14 I know what it's like. I've been a professional

15 musician for 35 years, and at my level of the game, you

16 hardly know where your next gig is coming from. I know

17 what it's like not to know where the next paycheck is

18 coming from, and particularly if you have children. This

19 is real.

20 But that's not the problem. Pacific Lumber Company

21 does many good things. I know personally. I've been a

22 beneficiary of their largesse, and it's real and it's

23 good; but that's not the problem. The problem is real.

24 We're not making it up. I've been at this for 25 years,

25 and I'm sick and tired of being treated as if I'm some

00279

1 kind of a radical. I'm 60 years old. I'm a responsible

2 member of my community. You think I haven't better things

3 to do with my time?

4 For 25 years I've been coming to these meetings.

5 God gave this nation wonderful treasures, great treasures

6 of beauty and wonder. And what have we done with them?

7 Do you think it's the environmentalists that cause the

8 fish to go from our rivers? They're gone, you know. Do

9 you think I'm making it up? They're gone. If you guys

10 were doing your job, why aren't they there?

11 Do you think that if you -- I'm not speaking

12 personally. I'm sure each of you as individuals are

13 people I would be delighted to know, but I've got to speak

14 the truth to you. Do you think that if the agencies that

15 this country has placed with a sacred duty to protect

16 these treasured resources -- if you had been doing your

17 job, would the air be becoming unbreathable; would the

18 water be becoming undrinkable; would poisons be spread all

19 over our land? Everything has gone downhill in this

20 country I love. I remember what it was like in 1940.

21 Doesn't anyone else?

22 It's too late, almost. We're not beginning this

23 process. Ninety-seven percent of the old-growth forest is

24 gone.

25 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Peter, I need your conclusion.

00280

1 MR. CHILDS: My conclusion is that it's almost too

2 late. You've got to wake up and do the sacred duty that

3 you've entrusted with, that we pay you do to. Please do

4 it.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Peter.

6 Daniel, your testimony, please.

7 MR PINEDA: My name is Danny Pineda, and I'm coming

8 to you as a citizen of this planet.

9 First I would like to say I believe everybody here

10 has something important to say; and I request that another

11 hearing take place so that all may be heard.

12 The Endangered Species Act must be enforced. It

13 must be enforced. Pacific Lumber should not be granted

14 ITP's due to their numerous practice violations. The

15 no-surprises clause must be excluded from the HCP in order

16 to ensure protection for all species.

17 The HCP water temperature thresholds must not exceed

18 a maximum weekly average of 16 degrees Celsius in order to

19 protect coho salmon's right to exist. Habitat analysis

20 for the northern spotted owl and marbled murrelet should

21 be performed by an independent scientific team, and the

22 data collected should be the basis for the conservation

23 areas. Protection is also necessary for Class III streams

24 in order to prevent sediment intrusion into Class I and II

25 streams.

00281

1 The disturbance index is inadequate because it does

2 not include the effects of road building. It needs to

3 include this. The watershed analysis process as described

4 in the HCP allows opinions to possibly count as much as

5 science. I ask that the watershed analysis process be

6 conducted by an independent scientific team where science

7 is the basis for management.

8 The Sustained Yield Plan is not sustainable when the

9 first decade's harvest rate is 32 percent greater than the

10 rate of growth. I ask for the board not to accept an SYP

11 unless the rate of growth exceeds the rate of harvest for

12 every year of the SYP.

13 PRESIDING OFFICER: Danny, I need your conclusion.

14 MR. PINEDA: To close, I would like to pose a

15 question to the employees of Pacific Lumber. If after ten

16 years and a cut of 25 percent of Pacific Lumber's land, do

17 you expect the employment rate of Pacific Lumber to stay

18 at the rate it is now? Do you think that all of your jobs

19 are secure with the area available for the harvest

20 significantly reduced?

21 Thank you.

22 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Danny.

23 The court reporter needs to change the paper and set

24 the machine, so we're going off the record. We'll be back

25 at 7:45.

00282

1 We're now off the record.

2 (Recess taken.)

3 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Jan Lundberg.

4 Are you Jan Lundberg?

5 MR. LUNDBERG: I am Jan Lundberg. J-A-N

6 L-U-N-D-B-E-R-G. I'm with the Fossil Fuels Policy Action

7 Institute, part of the Alliance for a Paving Moratorium.

8 We support repairing existing essential roads, halting new

9 paved and unpaved road construction. With the monies

10 saved, we can maintain a sustainable infrastructure using

11 alternative transportation.

12 My biggest worries, though, today, are Y2K

13 computer-related economic collapse and global warming.

14 They relate to Headwaters Forest and a lifestyle that will

15 have to change. It's the vehicular society harming the

16 global environment more than any other single factor, and

17 timber workers like to point out this to protesters, and

18 they're accurate. I learned this in my ten years studying

19 roads and transportation from originally an oil-industry

20 analyst's perspective. My former newsletter predicted the

21 second oil shock of the 1970's.

22 Jobs restoring forests, such as decommissioning

23 roads, are great employment potential. They already

24 exist. An alternative economic activity has been

25 identified and demonstrated. This must be done if we are

00283

1 to save the salmon industry. All species depend on the

2 forest being saved. That is why the issue of jobs is

3 through the theme of local-land use reform, and providing

4 for our food locally can do a better job of savings

5 species, including our own.

6 A great push to depave arable land and institute

7 pedal-powered transport, such as bike-cart deliveries, can

8 provide the basis for countless jobs. In this new

9 economy, we will take care of one another and our needs

10 more efficiently and eliminate misplaced trust in

11 corporations and government bureaucracy.

12 Picture half the people in a neighborhood working

13 together, including providing childcare, education, et

14 cetera. This could mean half the adults in this country,

15 needed to do meaningful work.

16 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jan, I need your conclusion.

17 Thank you.

18 MR. LUNDBERG: If I read this real fast, three

19 minutes. But the rain smeared it for me.

20 -- work that may be vital in a sudden, unexpected

21 fashion due to the millennium-bug problem or general

22 economic collapse. Restructuring our work and our

23 relationship to this land could result, therefore, in 100

24 million new jobs, and I submit this proposal to you, which

25 I have to the U.S. Secretary of Labor and to the White

00284

1 House.

2 Oil is something we're quite tied into at present,

3 including today's timber jobs. We're running out of oil

4 in this country, in about seven to fifteen years, and then

5 globally soon after that. That's going to impact how we

6 live more than some of the regulatory compromising

7 concerning one particular forest.

8 Nevertheless, I mistrust this HCP and urge its

9 replacement with sounder conservation.

10 Thank you very much.

11 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Jan.

12 Christine Preucil?

13 April Richards will speak after Christine.

14 MS. PREUCIL: My name is Christine Preucil,

15 P-R-E-U-C-I-L. And first I'd like to direct my comments

16 to the board in front of me.

17 California Department of Forestry: Now that you've

18 taken PALCO's license, so what? Do you give it back next

19 week, and you've just given some lip service to the

20 environmental movement to shut us up for a little while,

21 because you know we'll never go away? Will you really not

22 give them their license again next year and demand that

23 they start following the law and come up with a new

24 Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield Plan that is

25 actually going to bring recovery to the species? I hope

00285

1 so. We'll see. From what I've learned, I don't know if I

2 can trust you, and in my personal young opinion, I am

3 waiting for the next generation of foresters who will

4 replace you someday to protect what's left, if you leave

5 them anything to protect.

6 Is Mr. Bruce Halstead here? Because I've come to

7 direct my comments to Mr. Bruce Halstead, U.S. Fish and

8 Wildlife, who pretty much will, on the local level, be

9 giving these incidental take permits for PALCO to kill

10 more endangered species. And I would like to ask Mr.

11 Bruce Halstead today to choose Option 1, no action; and

12 until some sound science comes into play here, there is no

13 reason to give corporate welfare to a company like Maxxam,

14 who has earned no respect in this county, as far as I'm

15 concerned. And I encourage the timber community to not

16 take scraps of jobs here and there as a substitute for a

17 truly sustainable future.

18 And the rest of my comments, my time, I am giving to

19 the timber mothers, the timbers mothers and the timber

20 wives.

21 And I ask all of you to look inside of yourselves

22 not only for the Christianity that you've invested your

23 time and your love into putting into the hearts of your

24 children, but the Goddess, the Goddess, the power of the

25 woman, the power of the Mother Earth. For it is the women

00286

1 who give birth and it is the woman who is the glue that

2 holds these families together.

3 Fear not your husbands, fear not your husbands'

4 bosses. If the women lead their children into jobs fixing

5 the forest that has been destroyed by this corporate

6 welfare, we'll lead ourselves into a future of hope, into

7 a future of fish.

8 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Christine, I need your

9 conclusion.

10 MS. PREUCIL: Thank you.

11 Okay. You don't want to listen to me.

12 Since ancient Rome -- since ancient Rome, the men

13 have cut the trees down to make war. And it's over. The

14 women are going to stand up and they're going to tell

15 their kids, "Look. This has been a proud timber community

16 for many, many years; but it's time to train in the jobs

17 of restoration. It's time to fix things and clearcut no

18 more."

19 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Christine.

20 April Richards?

21 After April will be Michael Schwartz.

22 Michael, you'll be after April.

23 April, you've got two minutes.

24 Thank you.

25 MS. RICHARDS: Hello. my name is April Richards,

00287

1 R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S; and though I was raised in Iowa, my

2 grandfather is from this area and I've been coming here

3 since I was five years old. And I've come back to make

4 this place my home.

5 I realize that the PALCO HCP/SYP is the most

6 comprehensive plan for managing timberlands that has ever

7 been put together. This is not enough. The plans should

8 not be finalized until concessions for species that are

9 protected under the Endangered Species Act are made. The,

10 quote, no-surprises clause included in the HCP/SYP goes

11 against Section 4 of the Endangered Species Act by not

12 allowing for protection of species listed as endangered or

13 threatened after the implementation of the plan.

14 According to Section 4, the secretary of the

15 Interior is required to consider species for listing and

16 subsequent protections without regard to economic impact.

17 Species like the torrent salamander and the tailed frog go

18 entirely unprotected with this plan.

19 Maxxam's commitment to the environment is

20 questionable at best along these lines. Since the

21 implementation of habitat restoration practices on Maxxam

22 land, 1,223 in-stream habitat structures have been placed

23 in streams on Maxxam land. Those structures were placed

24 at the cost of $2,250,000 to the public. Maxxam's

25 contribution to the cost of these structures to protect

00288

1 anadromous salmonids was approximately $329,000. The

2 public paid four-fifths of the bill for these restoration

3 measures.

4 The majority of these instream structures placed

5 with public funds are now either buried under sediment or

6 washed out by debris torrents caused by upslope management

7 practices, including current and historic roading and

8 deforestation.

9 Meanwhile, two-thirds of the revenue generated from

10 the harvest of Humboldt County watersheds leaves the area

11 in order to pay the interest on the nearly $900 million

12 junk-bond debts that did not belong to the Pacific Lumber

13 Company or Humboldt County before the hostile takeover of

14 the Pacific Lumber Company by Maxxam Corporation.

15 And I will conclude. It is not Humboldt County's

16 responsibility to bear the weight of this debt. Our

17 watersheds cannot afford it, old-growth-dependent species

18 cannot afford it, old-growth-dependent species cannot

19 afford it, nor can the future generations of people that

20 live here afford it.

21 I recommend that the HCP/SYP in its current form be

22 redrafted to include current data as the majority of data

23 that it relies upon is in excess of ten years old. I also

24 recommend that the no-surprises clause be stricken from

25 the document, as it goes directly against the Endangered

00289

1 Species Act, Section 4.

2 Thank you.

3 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, April.

4 Nakoma Quinn.

5 Nakoma will be after Michael Schwartz.

6 MR. QUINN: My name is Nakoma Keith Quinn.

7 Q-U-I-N-N is my last name, is how it's spelled. I would

8 like to address all of humanity that is here tonight.

9 First, I would like to say to the panel that I

10 please, I stress, I beg, I pray that you look at the

11 improprieties of the Habitat Conservation Plan. Because

12 it is not a Habitat Conservation Plan, it is legal

13 loopholes to give corporations and their holdings the

14 right to take the lives of endangered species and the

15 right to continue to plunder the last of the old-growths,

16 that which we cannot grow back in our grandchildren's

17 lifetimes.

18 I would also like to say that I really pray that all

19 of the employees of Pacific Lumber -- of which I have the

20 greatest and deepest love and respect for all of you and

21 all of our children and all of our sisters and brothers of

22 humanity -- and I ask you to please search your hearts,

23 minds, body and souls, and stand up against the injustices

24 that the corporations have pitted us and given us terms.

25 This human wears an environmental tag. That human wears a

00290

1 logger tag. We are still humans. Let's come together

2 with a realistic plan.

3 There is a moratorium in Northern California on the

4 building of houses, of which an old girlfriend of mine's

5 parents owns some land they still could not build a house

6 on. I'm not saying end logging in Humboldt County. I'm

7 saying put a moratorium on the old-growth and show some

8 real responsible care for the environment and real

9 reforestation, not cut and slash and let it go into the

10 rivers and blame the lack of the fish on squawfish.

11 In conclusion -- in conclusion, everything that

12 every one of us do and say, as the Creator has shown me

13 through many lessons in my life -- some beautiful and some

14 scared the S-H-I-T out of me -- we are all responsible for

15 every action that we do, for every side that we take, and

16 every stance that we take; and I hope that we all -- all

17 of us, every one of humanity -- makes this choice with all

18 of their relations and their future generations in mind.

19 Thank you.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Nakoma.

21 Bill Jones?

22 Are you Michael Schwartz?

23 Come on, Michael. Let's give your testimony.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: (Speaker and portion of audience

25 vocalize forest sounds.)

00291

1 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Michael.

2 Your testimony, Bill.

3 And after Bill it will be Carolyn DePucci.

4 MR. JONES: My name is Bill Jones.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Just a second.

6 Thank you, Bill.

7 MR. JONES: My name is Bill Jones, J-O-N-E-S.

8 I am here as an employee of the Pacific Lumber

9 Company. I am here to speak in favor of the Headwaters

10 Agreement and, in particular, the Habitat Conservation

11 Plan, the Sustained Yield Plan, that have been proposed

12 for all of Pacific Lumber's timberlands.

13 The Headwaters Agreement is historic because it

14 combines the acquisition of ancient forests with

15 protection of fish and wildlife and preservation of jobs.

16 Because of the scientific study and research that has been

17 done by scientists from both the government and the

18 private industry, Headwaters Agreement is sound. The plan

19 is conservative, and is our last chance to save the

20 Headwaters and other lands we consider vital to preserve.

21 There simply will not be another chance.

22 The efforts behind this agreement have to do with

23 habitat conservation, species protection and sustainable

24 forestry. The economic vitality of this region is also at

25 stake and must have equal consideration.

00292

1 The Pacific Lumber Company employs more than 1500

2 people and is the largest private employer in Humboldt

3 County. PALCO generates in excess of $170 million of

4 economic activity annually and indirectly provides

5 thousands of other jobs. Millions of tax-revenue dollars

6 are created through timber production and go to our

7 schools and our road maintenance. Without contributions

8 of the Pacific Lumber Company, this area would be

9 economically and socially devastated.

10 I have been working in the forest-products industry

11 for over 25 years. My parents and my grandparents were in

12 the lumber business, and I was raised on timber dollars.

13 I am raising my family -- yes -- I am raising my family

14 and paying for it through my work in the timber industry.

15 Please recognize the impact -- economic impact of

16 this plan on my family, on my company, and on my

17 community. It is a key to our economic future.

18 The Headwaters Forest Agreement is good and should

19 be implemented as written.

20 Thank you.

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you.

22 Jennifer Sharkey?

23 Jennifer, you'll be testifying after Carolyn.

24 Carolyn?

25 MS. DEPUCCI: My name is Carolyn DePucci.

00293

1 I was a single mother raising two children in the

2 Bay Area working for the Pacific Lumber Company. We moved

3 to Humboldt County three years ago, to Scotia, where I now

4 reside, to continue working for the company with the sight

5 of giving my children a better life and a sense of

6 stability in a town where this company takes care of their

7 employees and their families.

8 I met my husband, also a single parent raising three

9 children. He has worked for the company for 20 years, his

10 father for 43 years, and his father for many years before

11 that. We enjoy a happy life together in a great community

12 with good jobs and good people.

13 I am here tonight for my voice to be heard in

14 support of passing the Habitat Conservation Plan and

15 Sustained Yield Plan. The Pacific Lumber Company is not

16 only good to the employees and their families but also to

17 the environment we live in. There are thousands of acres

18 of protected forest for my children and their children to

19 enjoy. There is wildlife in a forest and fish in the

20 streams. Timber dollars that have supported the local

21 economy and kept hundreds of jobs so that our children and

22 their children can reap the benefits of beautiful forests

23 and a healthy Humboldt County economy.

24 My children understand the benefits of lumber for

25 houses, schools and churches. My children and myself shop

00294

1 and eat in the stores and the restaurants of Humboldt

2 County, which our tax dollar help support. I don't want

3 to explain to my children that the environmentalists

4 believe that all trees are more important than mommies,

5 daddies and children in this community, and that all trees

6 need a future, but not a person.

7 Please let us legally grow trees, harvest trees on

8 privately owned land, and let us get on with our lives so

9 that we may live and grow in Humboldt County along

10 with already thousands of acres of preserved forests.

11 Thank you.

12 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Carolyn.

13 Jennifer Sharkey?

14 And Wendy Stevenson?

15 MS. SHARKEY: Hello. My name is Jennifer Sharkey.

16 I work and reside in Scotia. I was raised and have lived

17 the majority of my life in the Eel River Valley. I

18 believe to a great extent that by living in this unique

19 and beautiful area is in a large part due to the Pacific

20 Lumber Company.

21 I am only a first-generation timber employee.

22 However, that is misleading. Unlike many of my fellow

23 employees, my ancestors did not work at PALCO, but that

24 does not mean that I have not enjoyed the full benefit of

25 the existence of this company.

00295

1 My most vivid memories as a child are the times my

2 family spent in the redwoods of this county. Whether it

3 be hiking, camping or swimming, the majority of these

4 experiences were in the redwood parks that had been set

5 aside by PALCO before I was born. The remainder of my

6 memories are of my school, sports, Scouts and religious

7 activities that all included the stewardship of the

8 Pacific Lumber Company. All of these were, in various

9 levels of contributions, supported by a company my family

10 income was not directly affected by, but most generously

11 indirectly.

12 I left Humboldt County for a few years to extend my

13 career training, but then returned to the area I felt was

14 the best to raise my children so that they would have the

15 opportunity to reap the benefits I enjoyed as a child.

16 I believe that the Habitat Conservation Plan,

17 Sustained Yield Plan, and the Headwaters Agreement secure

18 that my childhood experiences are preserved for my

19 children to experience and to theirs beyond them.

20 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jennifer, I need your

21 conclusion.

22 MS. SHARKEY: I leave the task of sorting through

23 the facts of erosion, endangered-species habitat, et

24 cetera, to the most capable scientists and professionals

25 responsible. However, I am personally aware of the many

00296

1 years that have gone into resolving the conflict with the

2 radical environmentalists that have refused to see past

3 the corporate owner of a number-one American company.

4 The true danger we face as employees, families and

5 the community's population as a whole is the inconceivable

6 notion that everything I have described to you tonight can

7 disappear. The health of the Pacific Lumber Company is

8 the health of Humboldt County. By approving the plans

9 before you, the balance of all of the above is

10 represented.

11 Thank you.

12 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Jennifer.

13 Jim Bragg?

14 Jim, you'll be testifying after Wendy.

15 Wendy, your testimony, please.

16 MS. STEVENSON: Good evening. My name is Wendy

17 Stevenson, S-T-E-V-E-N-S-O-N.

18 I am an employee of the Pacific Lumber Company. I

19 moved here from Southern California a few years ago in

20 order that I might enjoy the kind of life that this area

21 affords us. Good friends are more like family, good

22 neighbors, a good job and beautiful place to live. I am

23 here tonight to express my desire to see the Headwaters

24 deal pass and to resolve over a decade of unrest and

25 conflict.

00297

1 For about 130 years the Pacific Lumber Company has

2 been in business. They have been producing lumber for our

3 country's use. Look around at our mountains and you will

4 see that the forest is still thriving --

5 Excuse me for shaking.

6 This company has been practicing forest management

7 for over a century. And all you have to do is look around

8 at Humboldt and see -- and all of the beauty around us.

9 Not only has PALCO been in the business of legal logging,

10 but the contributions this company has made to hospitals,

11 schools, and its community is quite substantial and makes

12 me very proud to say that I'm one of its 1500 employees.

13 I would also like to see the end to this invasion in

14 our community by the Earth First organization. I saw a

15 woman stand next to her car, undress right in front of our

16 daycare center, scream and yell at the small children that

17 they were going to go in the forest and find their

18 fathers. Terrorizing a young child is nothing less than a

19 bully mentality and a terrorist, and this kind of action

20 should no longer be tolerated.

21 The welfare of a tree is not more important than the

22 welfare of our children. Please pass this plan so we can

23 go on with our business of taking care of our forests, our

24 children and our community.

25 Thank you.

00298

1 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Wendy.

2 David Peake?

3 David you'll be after Jim Bragg.

4 Jim, your testimony, please.

5 MR. BRAGG: My name is Jim Bragg. And I've lived in

6 Carlotta for 23 years, and I've been employed by the

7 Pacific Lumber Company for 14-plus years and in the timber

8 industry, for 23 years residing in Humboldt County. This

9 is my home, where my wife and I have raised two kids, both

10 of them in college now because of PL scholarships. This

11 is my community, where I was a member of the volunteer

12 fire department. I was on the Cuddeback School Board.

13 I've been on the PTA, I've been involved with my kids in

14 sports and in school and many other community activities

15 and in our church.

16 The timber industry, and PL in particular, have

17 always been involved in all of these activities. They

18 have always been prevalent in everything that you would

19 see and do whenever we were involved in any of this.

20 I live here because I love this area. I love the

21 trees, the rivers, the county, the country life, the

22 people. This is a community of hard-working people who

23 depend on the environment for our livelihoods. We see the

24 balance between nature and man. We rely on that balance.

25 Our natural resources are a renewable source of life for

00299

1 us all.

2 That is why I'm here to support the Habitat

3 Conservation and Sustained Yield Plan. They are based on

4 sound scientific methods. They take into account the use

5 of privately owned timberland and the economy of this

6 county. It deals with wildlife, trees, water and people.

7 And it monitors the use of the forest to allow man and

8 nature to thrive and grow together.

9 We're not talking about thousands of acres of

10 federal and state park land. This is privately owned,

11 timber-zoned land that is managed for long-term growth and

12 harvesting for future generations. This community cannot

13 survive without sound scientific management of our natural

14 resources.

15 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: We need your conclusion, Jim.

16 MR. BRAGG: The HCP and SYP answer these concerns.

17 The timber industry is the key to the economic and

18 environmental stability in this county. You apparently

19 hold the fate of the entire industry and Pacific Lumber

20 Company in your hands. And you hold the fate of my job

21 and my family. Please remember the taxpayer and working

22 people of this community as you make your decision.

23 Thank you.

24 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Jim.

25 Anne Hubbard?

00300

1 Anne, you will be speaking after David Peake.

2 David?

3 MR. PEAKE: I'm going to change gears just slightly

4 here.

5 First of all, my name is David Peake, P-E-A-K-E, and

6 I have worked for Pacific Lumber Company. However, I have

7 not always worked for PL. I have also worked in

8 advertising and for one of the largest grocery chains on

9 the North Coast.

10 I'm addressing you this evening because I believe --

11 because I would like to share my observations with Pacific

12 Lumber Company's impact on the local environment. But by

13 "environment," I do not mean the local forests, streams

14 and wildlife. Instead, I'm referring to the living

15 environment we all share in Humboldt County, the security

16 and stability that we still enjoy in our local

17 communities.

18 While a cashier at a large grocery store in Fortuna,

19 I saw PL employees and their spouses come in and do their

20 monthly grocery shopping for their families, hundreds of

21 families, hundreds of men and women who would not have

22 been able to care for families if it were not for the

23 Pacific Lumber Company.

24 PL is the largest private employer in Humboldt

25 County and contributes greatly to our quality of life. PL

00301

1 employees spend much of their paychecks right here in

2 Humboldt County, creating sales-tax revenues that would

3 otherwise not be seen, sales tax that fund our

4 institutions, schools, the fire, police and a number of

5 other important facilities.

6 I know that much of the money spent by PL on payroll

7 remains here in Humboldt County because, while I was in

8 advertising, I saw that many of my clients depended on

9 that very fact, businesses which built their advertising

10 efforts around Pacific Lumber paydays. Were it not for

11 the Pacific Lumber Company and its more than one hundred

12 -- 1500 employees, many of the retail businesses in this

13 area would go under, and their families would suffer

14 tremendous loss.

15 Now, consider the impact of the Pacific Lumber

16 Company on our local economy; then consider the radical

17 environmental groups such as Earth First and what they

18 would see done to this company. Time after time, harvest

19 plans were approved for PL only to be dragged back into

20 court methodically by these radical environmentalists with

21 no other intention but to destroy the Pacific Lumber

22 Company.

23 This is within their legal rights, but how about all

24 their illegal activity? How many times did they trespass

25 on PL property, putting themselves in danger and the

00302

1 loggers, as well. How many times had the county had to

2 tap into the limited law-enforcement budget, spending

3 millions of dollars to curtail these activities? How many

4 lives have been endangered now, and even lost now, even

5 lost, because of their lack of respect for the law and

6 private property?

7 I'm closing right now.

8 It has recently been noted that even Theodore

9 Kasczynski, the Unabomber, has been linked to Earth First.

10 Is his kind of criminal behavior what we can expect in the

11 future here in Humboldt County from our friends in Earth

12 First? When they spike a tree and a logger hits a spike

13 with his chain saw, causing the chain to explode in his

14 face, is that much different than a letter bomb?

15 And here is the conclusion: Please consider the

16 plan before you very carefully, knowing that the balance

17 of your decision --

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: After Anne Hubbard, Noel Soucy.

19 Anne, your testimony please.

20 MS. HUBBARD: My name is Anne Hubbard, A-N-N-E

21 H-U-B-B-A-R-D, and I'm here tonight to tell you that I

22 will be present and will be still in your face unless a

23 real moratorium is established.

24 Please do not approve this ITP/SYP and horrible

25 Habitat Conservation Plan. Good science should include

00303

1 empirical evidence. Don't we have an organized way to

2 carry out a scientific investigation regarding things such

3 as herbicides being used? It seems like the herbicides

4 that Pacific -- the new Pacific Lumber is using so

5 extensively and plans to use have not really been

6 investigated.

7 Please view the video "Voices of Humboldt: The

8 Cumulative Impact," again, if you have not already -- if

9 you have already seen it. Please do not allow Maxxam to

10 subcontract out its illegal and destructive work. The

11 recent Freshwater violations should have told you this --

12 should have told you that this would be the sensible way

13 to go.

14 I would like to echo Julia Butterfly. This plan is

15 not about the economy, it's about the environment.

16 Employees claim that this deal will preserve the

17 environment, and I guess many other politicians. From

18 what I heard, it will be way less than 15 percent of some

19 kind of a set-aside. Most of -- and that may not be that

20 certain, of course. If it's tiny little patches, it will

21 be impacted by the environment around it, clearcut

22 environment.

23 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I need your conclusion.

24 Thank you.

25 MS. HUBBARD: Most of the environment will be

00304

1 clearcut ASAP. I don't see how you can say this is

2 preserving the environment. How anyone could say that.

3 Pesticides. Atrazine and Garlon-4 are two of the

4 seven worst pesticides extensively used by PL now, never

5 used by the old PL. Herbicides are necessary because of

6 clearcutting. They have polluted the bay below the

7 watersheds. Atrazine has been banned in several countries

8 and is known to cause cancer, kill fish and wildlife and

9 birds, insects and worms, and cause birth defects, sexual

10 abnormalities, and who knows what else.

11 PRESIDING OFFICER: Anne, your time is up.

12 MS. HUBBARD: I would like to remind you of the

13 woman last -- in our last hearing five days ago who lost

14 her five-year-old child to polluted water somewhere here,

15 south of here just a little bit. And I'm sure you

16 remember her testimony of how she is trying to sue,

17 herself.

18 Thank you very much.

19 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you.

20 Noel Soucy?

21 Don Luther?

22 Are you Noel? Okay.

23 MS. SOUCY: Hello. My name is Noel Soucy. I'm a

24 senior wildlife-management student at Humboldt State

25 University. I've been a resident of Humboldt County for

00305

1 seven years. I've been a volunteer wildlife technician

2 for over four years in service to Forest Service and other

3 groups researching and monitoring many of the species that

4 are in decline in Headwaters Forest.

5 I have hiked and flown over PALCO's old-growth and

6 clearcuts. I have seen mudslides and debris torrents

7 result from their clearcut practices. I have beared

8 witness to PALCO Company's many abuses of the laws

9 governing their lands. I have been involved in the

10 running, writing and development of the Headwaters Forest

11 Stewardship Plan. I've helped ground truth in GIS

12 databases on wildlife habitat coverages within the PALCO

13 land holdings as well as other places in Humboldt County.

14 And I have been involved in the movement to save

15 Headwaters Forest since my arrival in this county, and I

16 have never been paid for my hard work.

17 I disapprove of PALCO's Habitat Conservation Plan,

18 their Sustained Yield Plan and their incidental take

19 permits because these permits and plans allow PALCO to

20 take endangered species on the brink of extinction

21 regionally. It allows them to cut down trees that may

22 have nesting murrelets, because the HCP will not stop them

23 from cutting during murrelet breeding season. This could

24 lead to direct take of murrelets as they come down to the

25 ground in the forest floor.

00306

1 The HCP/SYP does not provide for the long-term

2 economic welfare of everyone living in Humboldt County, as

3 well as forest critters. It allows mass wasting, it

4 allows clearcuts, it totally disregards cumulative impacts

5 to the lands. It allows continued destruction of ancient

6 redwood forests, claiming that the endangered species

7 dependent upon these forests will just have to survive in

8 a couple small stands of trees.

9 In conclusion -- this is skipping way to the end,

10 but -- Pacific Lumber Company has violated the law many

11 times. Over 310 times they have violated the law. And

12 they are applying for a Habitat Conservation Plan. They

13 are applying for incidental take permits.

14 I don't believe that you guys can allow them to have

15 these plans, these permits, and take old-growth forests

16 and destroy wildlife habitat when they have violated the

17 same laws that allow them to get these plans.

18 So I urge your to disapprove the HCP/SYP and to save

19 the coho salmon, to save the murrelet, for the logger who

20 said that --

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: No, your time is up, Noel.

22 Thank you.

23 MR. SOUCY: For the logger that said he wanted to

24 give his toy --

25 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay. Don Luther and Renee

00307

1 Nitzel. Okay.

2 Heather Rawson? Heather Rawson? Is it Heather?

3 MS. RAWSON: Yes.

4 PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay. Heather, you're next.

5 Brian Basor?

6 Go ahead, Heather.

7 MS. RAWSON: Hi. I'm Heather Rawson, and basically

8 I'm here to bring up the issue of whistle blowing.

9 Whistle-blowing is those rare individuals who have it in

10 their heart to actually stand up for what they know is

11 right even when bureaucratical pressure is placed on them.

12 And it's very hard to be a whistle-blower, because a lot

13 of times getting pressure on your job from your bosses,

14 but to really do the right thing is in your heart and

15 follow through with, you know, what needs to happen.

16 I would also like to address issue of neighbors. I

17 think that it's really important in this community to

18 recognize that we're all Californians here, we are all

19 pretty much all here residents of Humboldt County, and we

20 have a vested interest in Humboldt County. We all love

21 the ocean, the majority of us love the redwoods. We would

22 like to live here for a long time in the future.

23 So we're all neighbors. Well, all except for the

24 owner of the corporate Maxxam institution, which,

25 basically, he's out of Texas, so he's not a neighbor; and

00308

1 obviously he doesn't care when private owners of private

2 property get their house flooded because the hill comes

3 down on them. You know, this isn't good neighbors.

4 What I think we really need to build in this

5 community is a lot more working relationship with our

6 neighbors, because we're the ones who want to live here;

7 we shouldn't be scapegoating each other. We're not the

8 enemies between each other. We're neighbors. What we

9 need to do is figure out what we can do to have jobs long

10 into the future and still be able to let our kids go

11 outside and be able to go in the forest and enjoy it.

12 I would like to see the no-surprise clause be

13 removed because basically the no-surprise clause, it

14 basically allows this corporation to be like a fox in a

15 henhouse. There isn't going to be any monitoring of this

16 corporation, so they basically get to monitor themselves.

17 So we need to pool --

18 PRESIDING OFFICER: I need your conclusion, Heather.

19 MS. RAWSON: Okay.

20 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you.

21 MS. RAWSON: No HCP, no permit to take. Let's

22 unionize PL and create a vision where we define the

23 conditions of our labor. Let's pool Maxxam's corporate

24 charter and focus on logging the way the old PL logged

25 before the corporate takeover.

00309

1 Thank you.

2 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Heather.

3 Brian Basor and Daniel Kosmal.

4 Brian?

5 MR. BASOR: Hi, there. My name is Brian Basor, and

6 that's spelled B-A-S-O-R. I'm coming to you as a student

7 at HSU. I was originally going to be a student of

8 forestry, and as soon as I found out about a lot of these

9 issues and a lot of what's going on in Humboldt County,

10 I've since changed my major, because I don't think there's

11 going to be enough forest for me to manage in the future.

12 I now am studying restoration ecology because I think

13 that's the only thing that's going to be able to save us.

14 I want to address issues in the Sustained Yield

15 Plan, especially the increased harvest in the first

16 decades of the plan, the first ten years. That's 25

17 percent of the trees that exist are going to be cut.

18 That's way too much. You can't substitute less logging in

19 the future for more logging in the first couple of

20 decades.

21 Also, the conversion to Douglas-fir stands of

22 forest. Douglas fir, of course, grows faster; but it's a

23 lot less money and a lot less redwood old-growth

24 ecosystems, which a lot of this other species need. In

25 the HCP, the salmon habitat -- we all understand exactly

00310

1 what salmon need. Of course, cool stream temperatures and

2 low, gravel-lined beds with low sediment, fine sediment

3 levels. And there's so many creeks, so many examples that

4 have -- that obviously have been destroyed by logging.

5 And what we're doing is basically taking the salmon

6 strains that belong in these rivers that are able to

7 survive and reproduce, and with those specific salmon gone

8 -- say, for example, from the Mattole River or from the

9 other watershed drainages -- no other salmon can replace

10 those genetically from other strains; and you can't

11 introduce other, you know, salmon that are hatched from

12 fisheries. It's monoculture, and then all of a sudden

13 your genetic diversity is lost.

14 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: We need your conclusion, Brian.

15 MR. BASOR: I've got a lot of other points that I'd

16 love to say, but what I want to do is go back to your job

17 as public employees of, you know, U.S. Fish and Wildlife

18 and Department -- CDF and also National Marine Fisheries.

19 And what you've got to do is look at this from the public

20 standpoint because you are our employees as taxpayers.

21 And so you've got to do what the public is going to be

22 best for, even though this is a private landholder's

23 lands.

24 The other thing I want to do is say that I've

25 listened to everybody here today. I have been here pretty

00311

1 much all day, and we're all saying the same thing.

2 Everybody. Employees, environmentalists, whatever you

3 want to call us, we're all community members and everyone

4 wants the same things. It's just we've got to agree on

5 how to get there. And we all know that. We've just got

6 to come together and do it.

7 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Brian. That's good.

8 Thank you.

9 Gary Gundlach?

10 Gary, you'll be after Daniel.

11 MR. KOSMAL: Number 41 said they got skipped.

12 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I called a name and we have to

13 keep right on going, okay?

14 Thank you very much.

15 MR. KOSMAL: My name is Daniel Kosmal, K-O-S-M-A-L.

16 And, for the record, I am being sarcastic.

17 Okay. Let's say Pacific Lumber wants to do some

18 timber harvesting in the Mattole watershed, where I live,

19 under their brand-new HCP. It is unfortunate that there

20 are only a couple of hundred coho and well under a

21 thousand chinook spawners a year; and the temperature of

22 the Mattole is already stressful, almost lethal, to Coho

23 for most of the summer; and the sediment load is already

24 at or above TMDL's that are lethal to salmonids. But

25 since watershed analysis won't be done here until the

00312

1 third decade of the plan, if ever, they'll just have to

2 follow the interim or default prescriptions.

3 So let's clearcut 40 acres, up to 100 of that Class

4 II stream. Let's get some skid trails up to ten feet of

5 that watercourse -- don't worry, Pacific Lumber will throw

6 some mulch on it when they're done -- and we'll have to

7 cut some new roads. Don't worry about the hundreds of

8 tons of soil removed from the road prism that will stay

9 out of the Class I waterway only a few feet away because

10 PL will mitigate by extending the boundary of the buffer

11 on the other side of the river a hundred feet or so. See

12 Section 1222 in the HCP if you don't believe me.

13 Oh, and did I mention that these clearcuts and roads

14 will be on debris-slide amphitheaters, as occur on most of

15 PL's holdings in the Mattole watershed? But don't worry;

16 the PL geologists will sign off on the plan and so will

17 CDF, as they always have in the past. The ten-foot buffer

18 zone will surely keep a mountainside of exposed soil from

19 entering the stream.

20 What's that? Cumulative effects? The HCP says that

21 it's too hard to be sure about them, so we'll go ahead

22 with the plan and start some adaptive management and we'll

23 let good old uncle Pacific Lumber monitor the

24 already-lethal sediment levels over time. It is like

25 letting the fox guard the henhouse. And if they think

00313

1 it's bad, then we'll bring you agencies together to see

2 what, if anything, can be done about it. As you can see,

3 the salmon will be dead by then.

4 The more I read this plan, the more I realize that

5 it's just a bloated attempt by Pacific Lumber to lock

6 their cozy relationship with CDF, filled with just enough

7 hip scientific buzzwords to confuse the other agencies

8 long enough to sign off on a 50-year extension permit for

9 Humboldt County.

10 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I need your conclusion, Daniel.

11 Thank you.

12 MR. KOSMAL: Sign this agreement and you'll sign

13 yourselves off to the sidelines for 50 years, where you

14 can scream and yell but you'll only be heard when CDF

15 wants to hear you and you can only do your job when CDF

16 calls you to the table. It's all economics. Sign this

17 Habitat Conservation Plan as written and you will solve

18 PL's endangered species plan for good. Species will go

19 extinct, and Pacific Lumber will laugh all the way to the

20 bank.

21 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Daniel.

22 Gary Gundlach?

23 And Demos Barcelos.

24 Are you Gary?

25 Go ahead. I need your testimony.

00314

1 MS. NITZEL: Excuse me. Respectfully, I would ask

2 -- my number was not called. I'm number 41. Shirley was

3 listening very closely to make sure when I was called, and

4 some other people. Nobody my any name, number 41.

5 Mistakes do happen. This was supposed to be right after

6 Luther --

7 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Yes, Anne. I called your name.

8 MS. NITZEL: Renee Nitzel, N-I-T-Z-E-L.

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: Sorry, but I called Anne

10 Hubbard, which is number 41.

11 I'm sorry. You need to go check back with the

12 people back there.

13 Gary, are you ready to give your testimony?

14 We only have so much time left.

15 Gary, I need your testimony.

16 Would you shut off that microphone over there,

17 please?

18 Gary, your testimony, please.

19 MR. GUNDLACH: Yes, sir. I'll try to be brief

20 because I know it's been a long day, especially for

21 yourselves. I'll be submitting written testimony as well

22 as some brief summary of what I've heard today and what I

23 feel is important.

24 Lifelong resident of Humboldt County. Small

25 business owner. Private landowner. All of these issues

00315

1 discussed are important to me.

2 This Habitat Conservation Plan, and everything that

3 goes with it, I think is very important. It's a very big

4 opportunity for us. The Pacific Lumber Company, which

5 I've work for for 12-plus years now, is a cornerstone of

6 the community. All of the issues involved -- the salmon,

7 the forest health, the streams, everything -- we all want

8 that. And I would say in some respect, yes, I do want you

9 to do your job in helping us make this plan work.

10 Everybody involved in devising the plan, I feel is

11 qualified. I had a choice on whether to follow this plan

12 or not, honestly; and I choose to follow it. I want it to

13 work. This community needs a workable solution. This

14 debate has gone on long enough. We need to get started on

15 doing something. My feeling is we can take it, make it

16 work now. It's got adaptive management strategies in it,

17 it can be reviewed. Let's get to work. Let's make it

18 work.

19 It's important to me because the company provides

20 such valuable jobs, you know, including my own, but for

21 everybody else too. We've got families to raise; we've

22 got all the support services in the community. It isn't

23 just small business we're talking about here. It's very

24 vital.

25 Regardless of the ownership of the company, we're in

00316

1 the harvesting business; and we want to do that in an

2 environmentally sound way. Let's get started. Enough

3 squabbling. We have the professional expertise to get it

4 done. Our people want to cooperate with you. Let's do it

5 and get it done. I urge your support.

6 Thank you very much.

7 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Gary.

8 PRESIDING OFFICER: Jim Hinrichs.

9 Jim, you'll be after Demos.

10 Demos, your testimony, please.

11 MR. BARCELOS: My name is Demos Barcelos,

12 B-A-R-C-E-L-O-S. I have lived in Humboldt County for 38

13 years. I'm here as a proud 22-year employee of the

14 Pacific Lumber Company. I hope to work for this company

15 until the day I retire. The only way this would be

16 possible is if the Headwaters Forest Agreement plan, the

17 HCP and the SYP are finalized.

18 I believe that the Headwaters Forest plan is

19 historic because it combines preservation of ancient

20 forests and jobs while protecting fish and wildlife. The

21 HCP is the most comprehensive ever developed for a

22 privately owned commercial timberlands. The SYP ensures

23 that a company won't cut more timber than it grows.

24 I support protecting species and habitat, but my

25 company needs a reliable source of timber from our own

00317

1 privately owned timberlands. There are many winners in

2 the Headwaters Forest Agreement: the ancient trees that

3 won't be cut, protected fish and wildlife, the future of

4 my job as well as thousands of others, and the rights of

5 the private property owner.

6 These plans are the key to my future and to the

7 future of life in Humboldt County as we know it. Pacific

8 Lumber is the largest private employer in Humboldt County.

9 That's why I feel it is important that we finalize this

10 agreement. My wife and I both lost our jobs working for

11 other timber companies because of the Redwood National

12 Park expansion plan which occurred in 1978. What's unique

13 about the Headwaters plan is that it protects our

14 environment and our jobs.

15 Now it's time to ensure that my company can continue

16 a 130-year tradition of providing jobs of much needed

17 forest products.

18 Thank you.

19 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Demos.

20 Jim Hinrichs and then Robert Parker.

21 Jim?

22 MR. HINRICHS: The lady should speak. She was in

23 line right ahead of us.

24 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: I understand that. Are you

25 relinquishing your time?

00318

1 Well, then, Jim, I called those names and we have to

2 go by the process. It's understood that there are a lot

3 of people here are not going to be able to testify. If

4 you want to relinquish your time to her --

5 MR. HINRICHS: No, I don't.

6 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Okay then, Jim. Please, let's

7 have your testimony.

8 MR. HINRICHS: My name is Jim Hinrichs, and I've

9 lived in this county for over 30 years. I've been

10 employed by Pacific Lumber Company for almost 20, and I'm

11 here in support of the habitat plan. But I got to

12 thinking to myself, why would a company voluntarily put

13 themselves in a position that they are putting the

14 standard higher than what CDF and Fish and Game are going

15 with? I've come up with -- to me I'm thinking they're

16 screwing themselves because the standard that they are

17 calling themselves to is higher than what is required now:

18 buffer zones, accountability and the whole nine yards.

19 Pacific Lumber Company is ready to move on, and move

20 on with a comprehensive plan, both in logging capabilities

21 and also environmental stand. I am ready to move on. The

22 company's ready to move on. And I think that we're ready

23 to take this and run with it.

24 I urge you gentlemen to look deeper into the plan,

25 and I ask for the approval of the plan.

00319

1 Thank you very much.

2 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you very much, Jim.

3 Jason Wilson?

4 Jason, you will be after Robert Parker.

5 Are you Robert Parker?

6 MR. PARKER: I'm Robert Parker, P-A-R-K-E-R, for the

7 record.

8 Today, this very day, is the eleventh-month

9 anniversary of Julia's ascent into the ancient redwood

10 tree "Luna." As she was cut off earlier, and in honor of

11 her, I'm going to read a statement that was written by

12 her.

13 I figured when you cut her off earlier it wasn't

14 the last time you heard from her, or the last time you

15 will be hearing from her.

16 I sit in my perch of the last eleven months high

17 atop the ancient redwood tree Luna and realize that I am

18 witnessing the loss of the plant and animal species that

19 call these old-growth forests home. What would otherwise

20 be an incredible view for me is marred by miles upon miles

21 of burnt clearcuts, massive mudslides; and the Eel River,

22 today turning dark brown with soil washed down from

23 Pacific Lumber's legacy of irresponsible stewardship.

24 Looking at what were at one time beautiful forests, I now

25 see a landscape of decimation and tree farms.

00320

1 I was raised to believe that when something is rare,

2 like many of the endangered plants and animals here, we

3 should treasure and protect it. Yet our government is

4 considering allowing further annihilation of these species

5 under the guise of Pacific Lumber's Habitat Conservation

6 Plan.

7 What is wrong with this country? What part of

8 "extinct" don't we understand? These species would not be

9 on the verge of extinction in the first place if our

10 government and regulatory agencies had done their jobs.

11 Had they, Pacific Lumber Company/Maxxam Corporation would

12 never have caused such horrifying destruction or have

13 gotten away with over 270 blatant violations of the law.

14 Our state and federal agencies have the chance to go

15 down in history as heroes. The only thing they have to do

16 to achieve this status is to merely do their job. How

17 much destruction must occur before these agencies stop

18 protecting corporate interests and begin protecting the

19 things of true value in life?

20 California Department of Forestry, U.S. Fish and

21 Wildlife Service, National Marine Fisheries Service:

22 Do your job. Uphold and enforce the law. Revoke PL

23 timber operator's license -- well, we'll give that you one

24 -- and deny the destructive and illegal Habitat

25 Conservation Plan. If you can't do your job, then please

00321

1 stand aside and let us do it for you. We've been doing it

2 long enough.

3 PRESIDING OFFICER: Robert, I need your conclusion.

4 A provision in the Code of Regulations, 50 CFR

5 13.21, forbids the issuance of an ITP to an entity that

6 has received a criminal citation for the same type of

7 behavior as that for which the entity seeks a permit.

8 Under these circumstances, the approval of an ITP would

9 violate federal law. Due to Pacific Lumber's blatant

10 repeated violations of the law, the federal government is

11 required to deny this permit. Considering how this

12 company has consistently lied and manipulated the legal

13 process, there is no basis whatsoever to trust PL to

14 adhere to any requirement to this HCP.

15 If the agencies do their job, they will deny this

16 plan. You will deny this plan, period.

17 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Robert.

18 Isadora Sicking will be after Jason.

19 Your testimony.

20 MR. WILSON: Yes. I'm Jason Wilson. That's

21 W-I-L-S-O-N. I have a degree in environmental studies

22 from Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri.

23 I've been a friend of Julia Butterfly's for about

24 three years now, and that's what brought me out here on

25 August, around the eighth month of her tree-sit.

00322

1 I came out here looking for life, liberty,

2 happiness, beauty, love. Instead, the first thing I saw

3 was the clearcuts. The next thing I saw was a video that

4 was taken by Julia Butterfly of loggers falling trees at

5 her, trying to knock her out of her platform. The next

6 thing I saw was of a man killed by a falling tree. It was

7 falled while he was trying to defend it. And the next

8 thing I saw was this -- you know, the HCP, the deal.

9 I think this deal should not go through, and the HCP

10 is the one thing that will keep this deal from going

11 through. Charles Hurwitz should not get $500 million for

12 this little tiny chunk of the national forest -- of the

13 forest. That $500 million could be funneled back into the

14 pension funds that he looted, and then that would only be

15 60 million. Then what; another 40 million to pay off --

16 reimburse the people who got screwed out of their

17 pensions?

18 That still leaves another $400 million that can be

19 earmarked by this government to create a forest

20 -- restoration job, a fund with that $400 million which

21 would keep growing and growing. And then the loggers

22 could be paid a salary to log sustainably. The logging

23 standards could be set by the Institute for Sustainable

24 Forestry. And then all these "Earth Firsters,"

25 quote/unquote, could go to Pacific Lumber and get a job

00323

1 doing forest restoration.

2 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Jason.

3 Isadora?

4 MS. SICKING: Hi.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Barbara Burns?

6 Barbara, you'll be after Isadora.

7 Isadora, your testimony, please.

8 MS. SICKING: Okay. Hi, there. My name is Isadora.

9 I came here to say "Hmm."

10 Pacific Lumber has the right to log their lands.

11 That's true. It's their land. They have the right to log

12 it. But this HCP, it doesn't conserve the habitat.

13 Pacific Lumber has logged the land responsibly

14 before Maxxam bought it, and denying the passage of this

15 HCP doesn't put Pacific Lumber out of business; it just

16 forces them to reevaluate the conservation plan and

17 rewrite it so that they can responsibly log the land.

18 And now I want to turn the mike over to the mama who

19 didn't get to talk.

20 MS. SHELBURN: I'm Shirley Shelburn. I came to

21 Humboldt County in 1961.

22 Like several other residents of the greater Trinidad

23 area, I'm very concerned about PALCO's proposal for the

24 SYP/HCP. The six volumes, like PALCO's relations with its

25 watershed neighbors, do not inspire confidence. For

00324

1 example, please consider Siskiyou forestry consultant's

2 reference to PALCO's HCP/LTSY calculations. LTSY based

3 upon periodic annual increment instead of the mean annual

4 increment, as it should be based.

5 The LTSY for the property using MAI is 160 million

6 board feet per year, about 40 percent less than PAI, 233

7 million board feet assumed in PALCO HCP proposal. But my

8 overriding complaint about the mathematics of the

9 Headwaters deal is that taxpayers are being asked to give

10 $480 million plus tax deductions, quote, "sought by and

11 satisfactory to the Pacific Lumber parties. Thus, the

12 deal would cost taxpayers more than $500 million, the

13 amount for which Charles Hurwitz threatens to sue if the

14 ESA is enforced without his HCP.

15 Since the ESA was already in effect when Maxxam took

16 the Pacific Lumber Company, it doesn't seem likely that

17 Hurwitz would win all $500 million. More old-growth,

18 endangered species, and taxpayers' money will be saved if

19 we simply enforce the Endangered Species Act instead of

20 paying Charles Hurwitz to expand his holdings with more

21 than $480 million.

22 Thank you.

23 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Shirley.

24 Tracy Brown?

25 Tracy, you'll be after Barbara.

00325

1 Barbara, your testimony please.

2 Barbara?

3 MS. BURNS: My name is Barbara Burns.

4 I live in Humboldt County, and I must say that this

5 whole proceedings has made me extremely sad. I've

6 listened to the testimony of Pacific Lumber employees.

7 They're afraid, I'm afraid for them; and if we have to be

8 afraid for them, we must be afraid for all of us.

9 I respectfully urge the agencies here today to

10 reject the Habitat Conservation Plan and Sustained Yield

11 Plan presented by Maxxam. Maxxam cannot be trusted to

12 honor the laws existing to protect public resources. We

13 have heard the numbers over and over. How can we trust

14 Maxxam with our future?

15 When the existing laws are enforced, token fines are

16 levied, paid by Maxxam, and then it's business as usual.

17 There is no regard by Maxxam for the issue at hand:

18 unmitigatable damage to the watersheds of Humboldt County.

19 With Maxxam's history of criminal practices, they should

20 be denied their request for an incidental take permit

21 based on their ineligibility under regulation 50 CFR

22 13.21(b)(1).

23 The SYP is a plan for the short-term liquidation of

24 forest resources and an unacceptable long-term

25 environmental and economic cost. Maxxam's plan to harvest

00326

1 32 percent more forest than will grow back in the next

2 decade, which turns out to be a four-year decade, is not

3 sustainable.

4 The HCP allows Maxxam to liquidate over 17,000 acres

5 of ancient and residual forest habitat, killing hundreds

6 of marbled murrelet. No consideration is given to

7 suspended harvest during nesting season. Unacceptable.

8 Under this HCP, Maxxam would be allowed to kill at

9 least one-third of the northern spotted owls before being

10 required to mitigate the decline. The owls would be

11 forced to find other nesting areas in an increasingly

12 hostile environment as an ancient, mature forest is taken

13 down around them.

14 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Barbara, I need your

15 conclusion.

16 MS. BURNS: Okay. Here is my conclusion.

17 It is the duty of the agencies present to protect

18 the public trust, you gentlemen and your agencies. The

19 HYCP -- the HCP and the SYP must be denied.

20 Furthermore, in my opinion the politically burdened

21 Headwaters deal must be scrapped. Corporate charters

22 should be revoked. We should revoke the charter of Maxxam

23 Corporation, which owns Pacific Lumber and Scotia Pacific,

24 SCOPAC. I say revoke the charter of debt-free Salmon

25 Creek Corporation -- anybody heard of it -- which holds

00327

1 title to the old-growth groves of Elk Head Springs and

2 Headwaters and is personally owned by Charles Hurwitz.

3 I beg you to forget the politics of the decisions

4 you are being asked to make. Act with your hearts on the

5 truth of what you know about Maxxam/Pacific Lumber. You

6 have an opportunity here in this very important moment to

7 do the right thing. To begin the healing. Please deny

8 approval of this plan.

9 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Barbara.

10 Mark Knipper?

11 Mark, you'll be after Tracy.

12 Tracy?

13 MS. BROWN: Hello. First, I want to thank all the

14 voices that have come before me for inspiring me to speak

15 today. My name is Tracy Brown. I am a citizen of

16 Humboldt County, of the earth, and I am a concerned mother

17 to be.

18 I am certainly not here to be against PL employees

19 and their concern for their livelihoods, but I am deeply

20 against Maxxam and its overall destructive practices. And

21 this is not the first time we have encountered Charles

22 Hurwitz' Maxxam and his criminal and insensitive

23 activities.

24 I urge you to reject the Maxxam Corporation HCP and

25 SYP because Maxxam is a known and proven offender and

00328

1 destroyer, not to be trusted. Please do not becomes its

2 accomplice in a murderous and criminal precedent that is

3 devastating to all living things.

4 Thank you.

5 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Tracy.

6 Mark Knipper?

7 And then Anne Willis.

8 Mark Knipper?

9 You're on, Mark.

10 MR. KNIPPER: Okay. I had this all written out and

11 I was all prepared. But I am deeply disturbed, people, by

12 what I've heard here. I don't like being chastised or

13 put down or disgustingly put in a little square and just

14 said, you know, "You're some stinky hippy."

15 Excuse me. I spent four years in a nuclear

16 submarine, okay? I defended this country and I fought and

17 died for this country. I believe in this country. I'm a

18 true patriot of this country, a fourth-generation

19 Californian; and I have watched the destruction of this

20 state before my very eyes.

21 I don't know what you're seeing when you look

22 around Stafford. I don't know what you see when you

23 look up on the hillsides of Scotia. I don't know what

24 your see when you look around Carlotta. But I talk to

25 your teenagers, and your teenagers tell me -- and I won't

00329

1 identify them, because they'll be persecuted -- but I will

2 tell you that your teenagers tell me that Charles Hurwitz

3 and Maxxam Corporation is here to cut and run. So what

4 about that?

5 Your teenagers tell me there used to be salmon

6 going up the creeks by Carlotta, and they don't see them

7 anymore. What happened there?

8 And that's all I got to say to you. Now I want to

9 call you to account.

10 Do your jobs. No more business as usual. It's

11 simply this: Your only mandate within the public trust as

12 representatives of all the people in California and

13 Humboldt County is this: Ban clearcutting, ban logging on

14 steep unstable slopes, assess cumulative impacts when

15 considering THP's, ban use of herbicides that pollute our

16 drinking water, provide minimum stream buffer zones and

17 prescribed by the federal forest ecosystem management

18 team. No more cutting of trees older than the state of

19 California, heritage trees that belong to our children and

20 their children's children and the next seven generations.

21 Okay. I'm done except for one more thing, which is

22 -- I imagine that this whole day has been moot due to the

23 fact under federal law -- why do I have to educate you?

24 Why do I have to educate you? Under federal law, anyone

25 convicted of a take of an endangered species, such as

00330

1 spotted owls in the Freshwater Creek THP, cannot be

2 granted an ITP. It's simply that.

3 The other thing is that --

4 Wow, I got so worked up.

5 PRESIDING OFFICER: I know. I need your conclusion,

6 though.

7 Thank you.

8 MR. KNIPPER: I'm trying to come up with it.

9 In conclusion, I have watched this state be

10 devastated before my very eyes. I'm only 43 years old.

11 We need to think seven generations into the future. You

12 people need to do your jobs. I mandate that.

13 My grandmother, who was born in Susanville, my

14 parents, who were born in the San Joaquin Valley, and

15 myself, who was born and raised in Scott Valley, we

16 deserve to have a environment that all of us can live

17 with.

18 Thank you.

19 PRESIDING OFFICIAL: Thank you, Mark.

20 Anne?

21 MS. WILLIS: Good evening. My name is Anne. I've

22 been here all day. I know how you feel, because I got

23 dressed up, too. I'm wearing my new bracelet. My hair's

24 not looking real good. I had to stand out in the rain to

25 wait to sign up, and I'm the last speaker. It's kind of

00331

1 cool.

2 What I'm here to tell you -- I was expecting to see

3 Michael Spear and Dr. William Hogarth again. I saw them

4 last week in Oakland, and I also saw, I think, Mr. -- how

5 do you say his name -- Ohmstead from the California

6 Department of Forestry. Anyway, I was talking to him just

7 like I'm talking to you now. I was making perfect eye

8 contact, like I'm doing to you now. We had an

9 understanding.

10 When you've all convened and you look over this HCP,

11 you're going to deny it. And you're going to come up with

12 a better plan. And you're going to do it for me, you're

13 going to do it for the people in this room.

14 My name is Anne Willis. When you go back to your

15 offices, tell Michael Spear, Dr. William Hogarth and Mr.

16 Ohmstead that I said hello, and I've already congratulated

17 them on the great decision that they're going to be making

18 for me and the people in this room and for the species of

19 the forest and for Julia Butterfly.

20 All right. You guys have a great night, and don't

21 dress up so much, because I'm noticing it's kind of --

22 it's hard work.

23 PRESIDING OFFICER: Thank you, Anne.

24 It's nine o'clock, and this concludes our evening

25 session. We are now off the record.

00332

1 I'd like to thank you for all the comments we heard

2 today. They will be reviewed and it will be informative.

3 Thank you very much.

4 [Evening session concluded.]

5 / / /

00333

1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )

) ss.

2 COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT )

5 I, TANIA N. BRUNELL, Certified Shorthand

6 Reporter of the State of California, do hereby certify

7 that I reported and transcribed the foregoing pages 1

8 through 332 in the matter of Department of Interior, U.S.

9 Fish and Wildlife Service Public Hearing, Eureka,

10 California, November 10, 1998.

12 DATED this ________ day of ___________,

13 1998.

16 _______________________

17 TANIA N. BRUNELL

18 CSR #4277